450108 - Unaccounted Airwoman & Airmen - 08-01-1945

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

450108 - Unaccounted Airwoman & Airmen - 08-01-1945

From Henk's List -

Princess Mary's RAF Nursing Service
GOMER, Pauline Mary - Sister - 6285 - PMRAFNS - East Retford Cemetery, Nottinghamshire.

WAAF
UK
GROSERT, Eileen Margaret - ACW1c - 479451 - WAAF - Newcastle-Upon-Tyne (West Road) Crematorium, Northumberland.

UK
ARMSTRONG, Peter Ronald - F/O (WoP) - 179030 -RAFVR - Pinner Cemetery, Middlesex.
CHEESMAN, William - Sgt - 1584815 - RAFVR - Runnymede Memorial, Surrey.
GOLDING, Horace Edward - F/S (Flt/Engr) - 1587410 - RAFVR - Bristol (Greenbank ) Cemetery, Gloucestershire.
McKENNA, James Neil - F/S (Pilot) - 1672426 - RAFVR - Glasgow (Riddrie Park ) Cemetery, Glasgow.
McNEILLY, Charles - AC2c - 1552222 - RAFVR - Glasgow (St. Peters ) Roman Catholic Cemetery, Glasgow.
STEVENS, Henry Minton - W/O - 755930 - RAFVR - Runnymede Memorial, Surrey.
THORN, Robert Cuthbert - F/L - 70675 - RAF - Runnymede Memorial, Surrey.
TREMAIN, John Henry - LAC - 1518800 - RAFVR - Mill Hill Cemetery, Middlesex.

From CWGC & Geoff's sites -

EGYPT
COOPER, John Orbell - F/S - 1458095 - RAFVR - Alamein Memorial, Egypt.
KENNEDY, John Roy - Sgt - 1571554 - RAFVR - Alamein Memorial, Egypt.
POULTON, Clement Stephen George - Sgt - 2222235 - RAFVR - Alamein Memorial, Egypt.
VINCENT, Kenneth Joseph - Sgt - 1867361 - RAFVR - Alamein Memorial, Egypt.
WEBSTER, Harry Stewart - Sgt - 1523617 - RAFVR - Alamein Memorial, Egypt.

ISRAEL
CLOWES, George Arthur - W/O (A/G) - 1314053 - RAFVR - Khayat Beach War Cemetery, Israel & Palestine. [ Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
GRUBB, Charles Greig - F/S (Pilot) - 1057860 - RAFVR - Khayat Beach War Cemetery, Israel & Palestine. [ Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
HADDOW, John Allan - Sgt - 1341177 - RAFVR - Khayat Beach War Cemetery, Israel & Palestine. [ Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
JONES, John - W/O (A/G) - 1401008 - RAFVR - Khayat Beach War Cemetery, Israel & Palestine. [ Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
LANE, Donald Owen - F/S (Nav) - 1320607 - RAFVR - Khayat Beach War Cemetery, Israel & Palestine. [ Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
WOODGATE, John Alan - F/S (Flt/Engr) - 1629272 - RAFVR - Khayat Beach War Cemetery, Israel & Palestine. [ Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].

UK
BARKELL, John Donald Stewart - F/O (Flg/Instr ) - 150443 - RAF - Oxford (Botley) Cemetery, Oxfordshire. [ Oxford I - LW903 - 18 AFU ].
BIFFEN, Harold - W/O (WoP-A/G) - 1336043 - RAFVR - Chester (Blaconden Cemetery, ) Cemetery, Cheshire. [ Anson I - EF935 - 10 AFU ].
LEWIS, Francis - Sgt (Wop) - 1898112 - RAFVR - Eckington Burial Ground, Derbyshire. [ Oxford I - PG986 - 15 AFU ].
LEWIS, Ronald Keith Mortimer - Sgt - 1398953 - RAFVR - Runnymede Memorial, Surrey. [ Wellington X - HE853 - 30 OTU ].
MACLEAN, Malcolm Fraser - Sgt (Pilot) - 1567034 - RAFVR - Inverness (Tomnahurich) Cemetery, Inverness-shire. [ Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].
McLOUGHLIN, Thomas Samuel - Sgt - 1037338 - RAFVR - Runnymede Memorial, Surrey. [ Wellington X - HE853 - 30 OTU ].
MEADOWS, Leonard Tom - Sgt (A/G) - 412215 - RAFVR - Stafford Cemetery, Staffordshire. [ Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].
PARRETT, Eric Stuart - Sgt (WoP) - 1874893 - RAFVR - Saffron Walden, Essex. [ Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].
VINCENT, Thomas Richard William - Sgt - 1445017 - RAFVR - Runnymede Memorial, Surrey. [ Wellington X - HE853 - 30 OTU ].
WADE, Clifton - Sgt (A/G) - 1593397 - RAFVR - Heighington (St. Michael ) Churchyard, Durham. [ Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].
WOODS, Charles William - Sgt - 1398131 - RAFVR - Runnymede Memorial, Surrey. [ Wellington X - HE853 - 30 OTU ].
WRIGHT, John Selby - Sgt (Air Bomber) - 1581990 - RAFVR - Newcastle-Under-Lyme (Silverdale) Cemetery, Staffordshire. [ Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].

Alex

[malcolm_raf]

Hi

EGYPT
COOPER, John Orbell - F/S - possibly killed whilst flying in Wellington X, JA468 of No 77 OTU, which flew into the sea off the coast of Palestine during a Leigh Light exercise.
KENNEDY, John Roy - Sgt - see Cooper.
POULTON, Clement Stephen George - Sgt - see Cooper.
VINCENT, Kenneth Joseph - Sgt - see Cooper.
WEBSTER, Harry Stewart - Sgt - see Cooper.

ISRAEL
CLOWES, George Arthur - W/O (A/G) - Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
GRUBB, Charles Greig - F/S (Pilot) - Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
HADDOW, John Allan - Sgt - Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
JONES, John - W/O (A/G) - Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
LANE, Donald Owen - F/S (Nav) - Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].
WOODGATE, John Alan - F/S (Flt/Engr) - Liberator B. VI - EW101 - 1675 CU ].

UK
GROSERT, Eileen Margaret - ACW1 - registered in Gateshead.
ARMSTRONG, Peter Ronald - F/O (WoP) - probably killed whilst flying in Wellington X, NC954 of No 105 (T) OTU, which crashed near Wootten in Lincolnshire after hitting a pole following an engine fire.
CHEESMAN, William - Sgt - possibly killed whilst flying in Wellington X, LP761 of No 105 (T) OTU, which failed to return from a navigation exercise near Bardsey Island.
GOLDING, Horace Edward - F/S (Flt/Engr) - registered in Pwllheli.
McKENNA, James Neil - F/S (Pilot) - registered in Ploughley.
McNEILLY, Charles - AC2 - not/Eng/Wales?.
STEVENS, Henry Minton - W/O - probably killed whilst flying in Wellington X, LP761 of No 105 (T) OTU, which failed to return from a navigation exercise near Bardsey Island.
THORN, Robert Cuthbert - F/L - probably killed whilst flying in Wellington X, LP761 of No 105 (T) OTU, which failed to return from a navigation exercise near Bardsey Island.
TREMAIN, John Henry - LAC - registered in Hendon.
BARKELL, John Donald Stewart - F/O (Flg/Instr ) - Oxford I - LW903 - 18 AFU ].
BIFFEN, Harold - W/O (WoP-A/G) -Anson I - EF935 - 10 AFU ].
LEWIS, Francis - Sgt (Wop) - Oxford I - PG986 - 15 AFU ].
LEWIS, Ronald Keith Mortimer - Sgt - Wellington X - HE853 - 30 OTU ].
MACLEAN, Malcolm Fraser - Sgt (Pilot) - Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].
McLOUGHLIN, Thomas Samuel - Sgt - Wellington X - HE853 - 30 OTU ].
MEADOWS, Leonard Tom - Sgt (A/G) - Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].
PARRETT, Eric Stuart - Sgt (WoP) - Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].
VINCENT, Thomas Richard William - Sgt - Wellington X - HE853 - 30 OTU ].
WADE, Clifton - Sgt (A/G) - Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].
WOODS, Charles William - Sgt - Wellington X - HE853 - 30 OTU ].
WRIGHT, John Selby - Sgt (Air Bomber) - Wellington X LN166 - 30 OTU ].

Malcolm

[wwrsimon]

McNEILLY, Charles - the Statutory Deaths notice on Scotland's People states that he died of Pulmonary Tuberculosis at Mearnskirk Hospital, Newton Mearns. His profession is listed as "Radio Mechanic."

Regards

Simon

[waberalan]

Hi
I,m new to this forum - hence my late involvement this thread
Malcolm has identified "COOPER, John Orbell - F/S - possibly killed whilst flying in Wellington X, JA468 of No 77 OTU, which flew into the sea off the coast of Palestine during a Leigh Light exercise."
J O Cooper is on on the memorial of pupils who died in WW2 at my old school (the Liverpool Institute). I have chased down details of his birth and his parents and they fit with John Orbell Cooper on the Alamein memorial. Are there any more details available, and is the source of Malcolm's information readily accessible?

WABERALAN

[waberalan]

Hi MALCOLM
I'm new to this forum - hence my late involvement this thread
You have identified " John Orbell - F/S - possibly killed whilst flying in Wellington X, JA468 of No 77 OTU, which flew into the sea off the coast of Palestine during a Leigh Light exercise."
J O Cooper is on on the memorial of pupils who died in WW2 at my old school (the Liverpool Institute). I have chased down details of his birth and his parents and they fit with John Orbell Cooper on the Alamein memorial. Are there any more details available, and is the source of your information re the accident readily accessible?

Alan

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Alan

My statement is purely based on the fact that he was lost at the same time as four others and this aircraft fits the bill, but I still need confirmation that he was in this incident.

Malcolm

[waberalan]

Hi Malcolm
Thanks for that. I tried to find details of the loss of Wellington X JA468 and the death Of J O Cooper on the i/net, but could find nothing. It's good to see that you have at least got a hint on it.

Alan

[waberalan]

[QUOTE=waberalan;110537]Hi Malcolm
Thanks for that. I tried to find details of the loss of Wellington X JA468 and the death Of J O Cooper on the i/net, but could find nothing. It's good to see that you have at least got a hint on it.

Alan[Hi again Malcolm. I've found out some more info that may be connected with missing airman John Orwell Cooper: 6 of the airmen on the Alamein memorial were RAAF personnel who also died on 8/01/45. They died when Wellington MP792 from 78 OTU at Ein Shemar (Palestine) disappeared at approximately 18.35 hrs while on a non-operational training exercise over the sea offshore of Jaffa. A little later information was received that an aircraft had crashed in the sea. A launch was despatched to carry out a search, and although some aircraft wreckage similar to the missing aircraft type was located, it could not be established if it came from the missing aircraft. I think 78 OTU trained Crew for Leigh lights. Perhaps JA468 (of 77 OTU at Qastina?) collided with Mp792? ]

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Alan

MP792 had an all RAAF crew and the aircraft records don't make a reference a collision as far as I'm aware but it may be that the actual circumstances of these two losses is unknown.

Malcolm

[peterowan]

Hi. I'm new to this so apologies for any mistakes.

I'm trying to find more details of WellingtonX, LP761 of No 105 (T) OTU
as I'm researching a particular death 'off Bardsey Island' with first name David.
I can't find any other reference than on this page - is it likely/possible there were other crew than the 3 listed?

Many thanks for any help

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello,

UK.

179030 F/O Peter Ronald ARMSTRONG RAFVR.

179030 F/O (W./Op.) Peter Ronald ARMSTRONG RAFVR, of 105 Operational Training Unit, Bramcote, was killed when Wellington X LP761 crashed off Bardsey Island, off the tip of the Llyn Peninsula, Caernarvon, during a navigational exercise.

See:
Failed To Return - Airmen Died In The Second World War 1939-45. The Roll of Honour of the British, Commonwealth and Allied Air Services. Part 2: A-B.
Hobson,Chris (Comp.).
Uckfield:Naval & Military Press,2018.
p.199.

Col.

[malcolm_raf]

Hi

The only problem with Hobson's entry on Armstrong is that his death was registered in Scunthorpe which fits more with being killed in Wellington X, NC954 of No 105 (T) OTU, which crashed near Wootten in Lincolnshire after hitting a pole following an engine fire. He is buried in Harrow (Pinner) New Cemetery.

The crew of LP761 are all commemorated on Runnymede.

Malcolm

[peterowan]

Hello Malcolm. What's your thinking / sources for putting Cheesman, Stevens and Thorn in LP761 - is it the coincidental date of aircraft loss with date of death + the Runnymede listing meaning they were lost? Do you think there could have been others on board?

Peter

[malcolm_raf]

Hi

The GRO lists Cheesman, Stevens and Thorn as being members of No 105 OCU and being on the Runnymede fits with a loss at sea.

Co-incidentally the unit lost a second aircraft the same day, NC954, which crashed near Scunthorpe, hence my comment that Armstrong was in that aircraft, not LP761.

105 OCU trained transport crews so a crew of three is likely, pilot, navigator and WOp, there would be no need for an Air Bomber or Air Gunners.

Malcolm

[peterowan]

Malcolm, many thanks for that crewing information. I concur about the Runnymede reasoning. Is that GRO info from the actual death certificates?
Peter

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Peter

It's from the official GRO list of deaths which were not registered by a UK Register Office because it occurred overseas or at sea.

Malcolm

[malcolm_raf]

Further to my last message.

I have now found another candidate for LP761 - Flt Sgt Horace Edward Golding (1587410). His death is registered in Pwllheli, which covers Bardsey Island and is CWGC registration states he was with No 105 OTU. So he could be the fourth crew member, assuming two pilots, Nav and WOp.

Malcolm

[peterowan]

Thanks for that Malcolm. It looks like Horace Golding was there, but his body must have been recovered as he has a gravestone in Bristol (logged at CWGC and at Find A Grave). The person I'm looking for was lost at sea.

[jonheyworth]

Pauline Mary Gomer 6285, attached to RAF Hospital Rauceby, committed suicide in the officer's quarters at the hospital, being found unresponsive on a sofa and dying shortly afterwards

[jonheyworth]

Eileen Margaret Grosert 479451 , attached to RAF Cleave, died at her home of pulmonary tuberculosis with her father present

[jonheyworth]

Bert Lloyd Stevenson R 128230 ,a tractor operator attached to RCAF Fort St. John , died on duty in the MT section of a cereberal heamorhage

[jonheyworth]

Kenneth George Short 1168328 , was discharged from 17 General hospital at Decca on 7 January with orders to return to his unit. He reported to Number 100 ASP to obtain orders, a travel warrant and a ration allowance. He was traced to Decca railway station where he changed his warrant to a rail ticket but No trace of him could be found and he was reported missing.

An investigation by the Special Investigation branch of HQ RAF Provost services ACSEA, discovered that his kit was found on a river steamer and a note in his pay book read " Have drowned myself "

[jonheyworth]

Horace Edward Golding 1587410 , attached to 105 OTU , was Lost in Wellington X LP761 . His current entry makes no mention of this

[jonheyworth]

James Wright 96156V , suffocated in his sleep dying of asphyxia

[jonheyworth]

Horace Abbott 1427946 , attached to 502 Squadron, died in Chase Farm hospital, Enfield, of bronchopneumonia with his wife, Mrs I.F. Abbott of Southbury Avenue, Enfield, at his bedside

[jonheyworth]

John Henry Tremain 1518800 was seriously injured in a propellor accident at RAF Hendon, dying of his injuries in Redhill EMS hospital