410211 - Unaccounted airmen - 11-2-1941

[Henk Welting]

What caused the death of and/or what were the places of death registration for:

F/O (Pilot) Richard E. DENT - 74670 - killed on active service;
Sgt (Pilot) Cyril A.R.P. KING - 754223 - killed on active service;
Cpl Saul E. LYONS - 849780 - not found Flight archives;
Sgt (Wop/Ag) Leslie W. SMITH - 818148 - killed on active service;
Sgt (Wop/Ag) Kenneth THORPE - 746797 - killed on active service, and
Sgt Basil L. YOUNG - 1266569 - not found Flight archives.

Proposed aircraft losses for this day:

Hudson I - T9296 - 1 (C)OTU - crashed on landing at night Dalbeattie, Dumfries.
Oxford I - N6279 - 14 FTS - crashed in forced landing Kempston, Bedfordshire.
Wallace II - K8701 - 1 SS - crashed in forced landing Sedgemoor ½ mile S of Walton, Somerset.
Blenheim IV - T2327 - 8 FPP - flew into high ground near Colerne.

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

[Dick]

Hi Henk
The only one that comes up is Lyons, 45, registered at Wenlock in Shropshire. I think this registration area has come up before in connection with the RAF Hospital at Cosford.
None of the others come up, which might mean Scotland- they COULD be a crew + instructors of a Hudson, but you will need independent evidence to be sure.
Regards
Dick

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Dick. Indeed two pilots and two wop/ag's could have been the 1 (C)OTU Hudson. Perhaps Ross will come up with some info.
Regards,
Henk.

[paulmcmillan]

F/O (Pilot) Richard E. DENT - 74670 - killed on active service;
Sgt (Pilot) Cyril A.R.P. KING - 754223 - killed on active service;
Sgt (Wop/Ag) Leslie W. SMITH - 818148 - killed on active service;
Sgt (Wop/Ag) Kenneth THORPE - 746797 - killed on active service
Sgt Basil L. YOUNG - 1266569


All registered in Scotland, but in two different locations

Sgt Basil L. YOUNG - 1266569 - Kirkoswald, Ayr

F/O (Pilot) Richard E. DENT - 74670 - Southwick, Kirkcudbright
Sgt (Pilot) Cyril A.R.P. KING - 754223 - Southwick, Kirkcudbright
Sgt (Wop/Ag) Leslie W. SMITH - 818148 - Southwick, Kirkcudbright
Sgt (Wop/Ag) Kenneth THORPE - 746797 - Southwick, Kirkcudbright

so as Dick says for tis 4 - Hudson I - T9296 - 1 (C)OTU

[Henk Welting]

As ever, thanks Paul for your quick and excellent reply.
Regards,
Henk.

[alclark]

Silloth ORB:

February 11th 1941, “A signal was received from the adjutant No.10 BGS Dumfries stating
that a Hudson aircraft No.T9296 belonging to No.1 COTU had crashed at Dalbeattie in the
County of Dumfries at 1110 hrs. The following occupants were killed F/O R.E. Dent (74670)
754223 Sgt/Pilot King. CARP, 746797 Sgt W/Op Ag Thorpe K. 818148 Sgt W/Op AG Smith
L.N. Another body was also discovered but so far it is not known who he is nor where he
came from. The bodies are now in Dumfries Infirmary. The machine was completely
destroyed by fire.”

Dumfries ORB:

February 11th 1941, “Crash of aircraft reported 6 miles East of Dalbeattie. Aircraft found to
belong to Silloth and to have burned out with the death of all members of the Crew
numbering 5. Action regarding disposal of aircraft and crew taken by this unit.”

Interesting that 1 OTU only identified 4 members of the crew yet Dumfries states there were 5, though the comment in the Silloth ORB about not knowing who it could be is also interesting.

Kirkoswald is close to Turnburry just inland to the south of Ayr so no apparent connection with T9296.

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Al for this very interesting info. I found my four 'unaccounted' but another question came up re crew member # 5 ! I think this is also important for our Coastal Command Specialist Ross.
Best regards,
Henk.

[dennis_burke]

S E Lyons is in Flight mag as DOAS, in this format of printing "Lyons, Cpl. S. E.;"

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Henk

There is a Basil Lambton Young on CWGC who was killed on this date and is buried in Kirkoswald Churchyard. I had him linked to the other four, so could he be No 5?

Malcolm

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Malcolm. It could be that YOUNG was the number 5 on 1 (C)OTU Hudson T9296, as mentioned in the Silloth ORB: "Another body was also discovered but sofar it is not known who he is nor where he came from". Let's wait for a reaction from our CC-Specialist Ross.
Regards,
Henk.

[davew]

Gents

I have copies of the relevant pages of the death register, and there is an un-named airman listed with the other four crewmen that you have identified. Unusually there is no onward reference to a document which does name him. As for Basil Young, he died of natural causes at Turnberry Hospital. A mystery indeed!

regards

DaveW

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Dave. I feel sorry that's me who often brings all those mysteries to this board !
Regards,
Henk.

[Ross_McNeill]

Hi Henk,

No answer from F1180 for the Hudson, Dent confirmed as pilot but 5 fatality has been scored out and replaced with 4. No alteration to the - in the Injured box.

So looks like Authority has come down on the side of 4 onboard,

Regards
Ross

[thorne83]

For those that may wish to know;

Cpl S E Lyons died in RAF Hospital, Cosford, from injuries received in a 'collision with a motor lorry'. He was stationed at No. 6 Balloon Centre, RAF Wythall.

Cheers,

Tom

[jonheyworth]

CORRECTION to Basil Lambton Young 1266569 , he did NOT die in an Anson crash, attached to Number 4 FPP he died in Turnberry EMS hospital of broncho pneumonia caused by influenza