PDA

View Full Version : Accounted Airmen Database - Feedback / Corrections



Jagan
26th November 2019, 02:22
Cheers Paul. ATA is completely done!

--------------------------------------------
This Thread is for corrections to the CWGC airmen database. Please post away

paulmcmillan
26th November 2019, 10:26
Jagan

Don't think link working


Should be

http://www.raf-lichfield.co.uk/ATA%20Casualties.htm

not

http://www.raf-lichfield.co.uk/ATA%2020Casualties.htm

James_Fitzy
11th May 2020, 14:30
Apologies for the amateur question, but how can I report/amend an error in the database?

The crew of Wellington Mk IV Z1218 are erroneously listed under "Z6298?" : http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=Z6298?

Elsewhere the database has an entry for Z1218 with the correct AIR81 file merged in: http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=Z1218

The 2nd link also has the incorrect date of crash by 1 day, the aircraft crashed on 20/10/1941 rather than the 21/10/1941.

Apologies if I've missed an obvious button or function to suggest corrections

Jagan
11th May 2020, 17:09
James, no worries - this thread is perfectly fine for the corrections. making the correction now.

jonheyworth
19th August 2020, 13:49
Should the RAF dead on the Maidenhead Register and the ATC cadets be included ?

Jagan
19th August 2020, 15:41
There have been other 'evil' suggestions as well :-) .

Fleet Air Arm casualties
The Polish Memorial register,
The Hellenic Air Force casualties
RAF Deaths 1919-1939

And I suspect any other foreign country subjects that flew in UK aircraft with a UK serial but are not show in CWGC ... ...

jonheyworth
19th August 2020, 20:33
Iíd agree wholeheartedly that what you described are outside the ď RAF WW2 qualifying period ď the chaps on the Maidenhead register and ATC cadets ? Iím not so sure

yeoldbarn
20th August 2020, 05:42
Jagan,

I think a Polish and Czech airmen memorial would be excellent and I would be happy to help out!

Regards,

Jagan
21st August 2020, 02:42
yeoldbarn

boy, have i got a project for you :).. if you email me at jaganpvsAThotmailDOTcom, i can share an excel of the data i have

The excel has 2174 Polish Names, airmen who died - which came from Kryzystek's List - https://listakrzystka.pl/en/ or https://listakrzystka.pl/?download=lista-krzystka-pdf

Some work has been done on it - in three categories

1042 have an aircraft serial associated with it
146 have some cause of death.
959 do not have a cause of death.

Now this sheet has to be reconciled with the current CWGC Data that has 1462 (http://www.rafcommands.com/database/wardead/index.php?qname=&qnum=&qdate=&qunit=&qappt=&qforce=Polish+AF&qregion=&qcntry=&qmem=&srname=&serialno=) records (with 13 unaccounted)

That would leave about 712 names that will have to be sorted through and added to the current CWGC Database . Now this 712 records could well be spread throughout the three categories in the excel. So the actual research needed could be on a smaller number...

The data in Krysystek;s list can be used to enrich the current CWGC Data - (service numbers, name corrections etc) so that is a bit of work)..


PS: Thanks for your inputs on other records till date.

Alex Smart
26th August 2020, 13:05
Hello Javan,
Oddly a couple of weeks ago I started to look at the Polish airmen . So far, not counting those lost in France before the Battle of Britain. The earliest Polish airman to loose his life in the UK in WW2 was on the 29 the July, 1940. Hurricane L1714, 6 OTU, Kasimierz OLEWINSKI, P/76753.
In 1940 so far I found only 21. Only one died from from illness, Blood poisoning while in Hospital.

jonheyworth
2nd October 2020, 19:48
Iíve noticed that whilst the IBCC entries for aircrew are great, for non aircrew they more often than not contain no details at all . Iíve been through the first 6 months of the war and of 9 such entries to 1940/04/14 Solomon , Rowe , Rule, Douglas , Green , Flynn, Prior and Hall - 8 of them have NO details of loss whatsoever

Jagan
2nd October 2020, 20:12
Jon, Good call out. Did a query and Thankfully I have only 146 of them present (No Aircraft Id, but an IBCC link). I had used the IBCC provided data to populate this so some may not have had the info. All the records seem to be from 1940 and 1941..

I have cleaned those out - will validate against IBCC and re-enter only those that have additional details.

jonheyworth
2nd October 2020, 20:34
Donít want to be an arse but it did strike me ! How can you be so IT savvy ?? I used a pen and paper !

jonheyworth
2nd October 2020, 20:39
Oh some I notice DO have causes of death so you donít want to cull any that do !!

Jagan
2nd October 2020, 21:07
Oh yes, i am validating them manually from bottom of the list - found two hits out of ten.. so a bulk of them will still need to be cleaned up.

jonheyworth
23rd October 2020, 18:34
Email, bounces back for some reason
Correcton for you . You have ames hamilton white dying as a pow 1946 -2-1, long after the war was over , he died of cellulite of the face and neck in the 72nd imperial general hospital in penang

paulmcmillan
23rd October 2020, 18:45
Jon

How far are you through your notebooks !


Paul

jonheyworth
23rd October 2020, 19:17
Not that far ? I think Iíve given our Jagan about 3000 new entries ? But Iíve waded through about 25000 guys n gals to find ones not already accounted for

Jagan
23rd October 2020, 19:28
Jon got it. not sure about my email but it should work .. sent you at test message. Will take care of this update.

COL BRUGGY
30th October 2020, 00:37
Hello,

Speaking of errors. The author's name is, Chris Hobson.

Col.

jonheyworth
30th October 2020, 07:35
If anyone wants to look at whoís still outstanding st Runnymede, Iíll fill in a load of the blanks later today when I get home

jonheyworth
30th October 2020, 08:09
Apologies . My dyslexia at play ! Coupled with my discalcula itís a bit of a nightmare sometimes . Names are one of my particular weak areas both in spelling and face to face recollection . Still it comes in handy when you call a girlfriend by the wrong name . I noticed last night Iíd spelt attatched about 900 times instead of attached ! The burdens we live with eh !

Jagan
7th February 2021, 18:14
Corrected about 264 serials in the CWGC DB that were returning 'unknown type' usually narrowed down to transposed numbers or letters.


These are out of a total of 99,682 records tied to aircraft serials - so 1% rate in bad records.

There are still about 960 entries that do not resolve to identified aircrafts or types..

148 are simply "Unidentified Aircraft".. Others serials not known.
106 Unidentified Spitfire serials
100 records for Hurricanes
87 Beaufighter entries
37 records for Mosquitos
37 Liberator
24 Kittyhawk/Tomahawk
27 Dakota
27 Baltimore

and so on

davew
18th June 2021, 16:25
Gents:

In the database you have two names against this Hurricane which was destroyed at Shalloch on Minnoch Scotland 13/9/1943, causing the death of 64941 Sanders CR. I have seen the death certificate in respect of this event and Sanders is correct.

The other name against this aircraft in the database is 533561 Mather SM who died 17/10/1943. He should correctly be associated with the loss of Oxford X6742 that crashed at Croydon on the said date.

regards

DaveW

AL90
19th June 2021, 11:56
Hi Dave,
Two Hurricanes were lost on Shalloch on the 13/9/43, KZ674 and KZ398. According to 186sqn ORB, F/Lt Sanders was flying KZ674 and F/O Hicks was flying KZ398. F/Lt Sanders was found on 15/9/43 and Hicks on 16/9/43.
Alan.

Jagan
20th June 2021, 14:39
Thanks for catching that Dave. will correct.

davew
21st June 2021, 16:45
Jagan

The above entry contains data for two other aircraft besides the Spitfire, all listed as R6807.

The Oxford serial should read P6807 and the Hurricane serial V6807.

regards

DaveW

Jagan
21st June 2021, 16:53
Thanks dave, couldnot fix the AIR81 entries , but the casualties have been corrected for the appropriate aircraft

davew
23rd June 2021, 20:52
Jagan

The entry for this aircraft has two crews associated with it. For this a/c I have
Chadwick S
Robinson FJ
Robson FW
Martin N
Stabler E
Vincent K
Aitken DP.

Some of the others I suspect should be attached to the record for LW 319 on 23rd or JB926 on 24th,
I am not able to sort this out myself as I do not have the Chorley books now.

regards

DaveW

Carsten
23rd June 2021, 21:08
http://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/aircraft/planes/dales/dt578.html

paulmcmillan
23rd June 2021, 21:34
http://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/aircraft/planes/dales/jb926.html

paulmcmillan
23rd June 2021, 21:36
LW319

http://aircrewremembered.com/martin-roy.html

davew
25th July 2021, 12:35
This officer should be associated with the loss of Hurricane Z2347 not Z3247.

regards

DaveW

wwrsimon
4th August 2021, 14:36
Hello

Corporal Robert BELL (512107) - I see the database has "Attached to PRU BASU, he died in a road accident in Armentieres."

http://www.rafcommands.com/database/wardead/details.php?qnum=55399

His unit on his CWGC entry is 902 Balloon Sqn, and he's buried at Seaton Hirst Cemetery in Northumberland. His death was possibly registered at Lewisham?

Regards

Simon

jonheyworth
4th August 2021, 17:19
Hello

Corporal Robert BELL (512107) - I see the database has "Attached to PRU BASU, he died in a road accident in Armentieres."

http://www.rafcommands.com/database/wardead/details.php?qnum=55399

His unit on his CWGC entry is 902 Balloon Sqn, and he's buried at Seaton Hirst Cemetery in Northumberland. His death was possibly registered at Lewisham?

Regards

Simon

I suspect that youíre right ! Iíll check

davew
16th April 2022, 19:47
Noticed that RKJ Gent is associated with Beaufort N1028 in the database, he was in fact killed in Magister V1028.

I pointed this out earlier but it seems not to have been picked up the database guardian

DaveW

Andy Marden
18th April 2022, 12:27
Dave,
These should be correct now:
http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=N1028
http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=V1028
Thanks for pointing it out.
Andy

malcolm_raf
13th November 2022, 15:04
Hi

The database states these two cadets were killed in Oxford DF344, but this crash was registered in Whitchurch, Shropshire.

They both died from injuries sustained whilst flying in Oxford II, R6390 of No 7 AACU, which crashed whilst attempting a forced landing near Bedworth in Warwickshire and burst into flames.

Their deaths were registered in Nuneton, Warwickshire

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
31st December 2022, 19:56
Hi

In the database AC2 Thomas WATSON (1069491) is shown as being lost in Wellington IC P9242

However, this cannot be correct as he is 1) an AC2, 2) he is buried in Halliwell (St. Peter) Churchyard and 3) his death his registered in Fylde

So unless someone knows his actual cause of death, he needs to revert to unaccounted.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
31st December 2022, 20:11
Hi

According to the database Sergeant Thomas ROBINSON (816103) U/T Air Gunner was killed in Hampden I P2135.

However, P2135 was lost on 31 Aug 1941 not 18 Mar 1941 and Sgt Robinson's death was registered in Louth, which fits with his unit No 1 AAS at RAF Manby

He therefore needs reverting to unaccounted?

Malcolm

jonheyworth
31st December 2022, 22:09
Thanks for both of those Malcolm, I'll see what can be found

malcolm_raf
1st January 2023, 11:04
Thanks for both of those Malcolm, I'll see what can be found

Here's another

7 Apr 1941 , AC1 Jack Riley - according to the database he was "Lost in aircraft Hampden I X3129 Shot down near Brest" (AIR81/5664) as is Sgt Jack Riley.

However, AC1 Riley was serving in Libya with 6 Sqn not 144 Sqn, so he needs to revert to unaccounted.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
1st January 2023, 11:36
Sergeant Gordon Andrew McKENZIE (905025) - 7 Apr 1941

His entry shows three different aircraft for him, Hurricanes L2124, N1214 (shown on ORB) and Lysander N1214.

However, L2124 was with 55 OTU but had been lost on 5 Dec 1940 whilst N1214 was a Lysander lost with 6 AACU on 18 Sep 1942.

So whilst the cause of death my be as stated the actual aircraft involved needs confirming

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
1st January 2023, 15:54
6 May 1941

Francis Joseph BIBBY (615420) - database states - Killed in an air attack on RAF Crosby on Eden

However his death his registered in Liverpool so I suggest the raid was on Liverpool

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
1st January 2023, 15:58
6 May 1941

AC2 Frank HUNNINGTON (1295907) - Died of self inflicted injuries at RAF Duxford,

However, his death is registered in New Forest so location was probably Dunsfold

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
1st January 2023, 16:12
9 May 1941

Wing Commander William Charles FARLEY (10245) - Killed in an enemy air raid at 16 Maintenance Unit HQ, Nottingham

He was killed in the Nottingham area and was serving at No 16 MU but that was located at Stafford, so he was away from the unit at the time

Malcolm

jonheyworth
1st January 2023, 16:58
Malcolm, these are worth a fortune , cheers

malcolm_raf
1st January 2023, 20:18
3 Jun 19451

Pilot Officer Arthur Thomas Edward GREENWAY (45741) Observer, Wellington I L4319 according to AIR81/6734

However, No 16 OTU did not operate Wellingtons at this time, only Hampdens and Herefords.

The ORB state Hampden L4319, but this is clearly incorrect as L4319 was a Wellington, so suggest it was P4319, which was operated by No 16 OTU.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
2nd January 2023, 10:33
2 Jun 1941

Sgt Norman Macdonald WALKER (745818) Hurricane II Z2900 1941-06-02

Date should be 12 Jun 1941

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
2nd January 2023, 15:20
11 Jul 1941

Corporal Edward Alexander HARRISON (355746) - the database states "Killed aircraft accident at Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA, Fairchild PT19, Spartan Aviation Company"

This was LAC R D Harrison.

Cpl E A Harrison died in The London Chest Hospital (probate records)

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
2nd January 2023, 15:34
22 Jul 1941

Leading Aircraftman George William SMITH (906533) - database states "Killed aircraft accident, Anson N5070, 10 Operational Training Unit"

However, he is not mentioned in AIR 81 file and his death is registered in Paddington.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
2nd January 2023, 15:40
25 Jul 1941

Sergeant Hubert DEARNLEY (1020220) - Database states he was lost in Battle L5530.

However, he was not lost as he was serving as an air gunner and died from wounds sustained the previous day whilst flying in Wellington IC, L5530 ĎLí of No 405 Sqn, during a raid on the pocket battleship 'Gneisenau' in Brest.

Malcolm

markpeelgb
2nd January 2023, 16:04
Your suggestion is correct, Malcolm. LAC Bibby was killed on 5 May 1941 at 8 Northumberland Buildings, Park Road, Liverpool, along with his mother Bridget Bibby (nee White) and his sister Mary Doherty (nee Bibby).

markpeelgb
2nd January 2023, 16:07
9 May 1941

Wing Commander William Charles FARLEY (10245) - Killed in an enemy air raid at 16 Maintenance Unit HQ, Nottingham

He was killed in the Nottingham area and was serving at No 16 MU but that was located at Stafford, so he was away from the unit at the time

Malcolm


Also correct, Malcolm. Wing Commander Farley was killed at Lower Parliament Street during the Nottingham air raid on 8-9 May 1941.

Andy Marden
2nd January 2023, 16:31
3 Jun 19451

Pilot Officer Arthur Thomas Edward GREENWAY (45741) Observer, Wellington I L4319 according to AIR81/6734

However, No 16 OTU did not operate Wellingtons at this time, only Hampdens and Herefords.

The ORB state Hampden L4319, but this is clearly incorrect as L4319 was a Wellington, so suggest it was P4319, which was operated by No 16 OTU.

Malcolm
Malcolm,
Thanks for spotting that, it does indeed look very likely that P4319 was involved. Does the ORB give any details of what actually happened please? There is no mention of an incident in the AM.78, with P4319 surviving until another fatal crash on 10 Oct 41, as per:
http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=P4319
Andy

Andy Marden
2nd January 2023, 16:56
2 Jun 1941

Sgt Norman Macdonald WALKER (745818) Hurricane II Z2900 1941-06-02

Date should be 12 Jun 1941

Malcolm
Malcolm,
Well spotted. I can't seem to find a way of changing that date, so will defer to Jagan.
One other thing to resolve, our database records his unit as 46 Sqn: http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=Z2900
This squadron seems to have been in transit down the west coast of Africa at the time of the loss?
Andy
Andy

Andy Marden
2nd January 2023, 17:03
22 Jul 1941

Leading Aircraftman George William SMITH (906533) - database states "Killed aircraft accident, Anson N5070, 10 Operational Training Unit"

However, he is not mentioned in AIR 81 file and his death is registered in Paddington.

Malcolm
Thanks, link removed.
Presumably he's now unaccounted? - please excuse my ignorance on this, my speciality is the aircraft...

Andy Marden
2nd January 2023, 17:19
25 Jul 1941

Sergeant Hubert DEARNLEY (1020220) - Database states he was lost in Battle L5530.

However, he was not lost as he was serving as an air gunner and died from wounds sustained the previous day whilst flying in Wellington IC, L5530 ĎLí of No 405 Sqn, during a raid on the pocket battleship 'Gneisenau' in Brest.

Malcolm
Malcolm,
The problem with this one is that AIR81/7825 incorrectly records the serial as L5530, which was indeed a Battle serial.
Our database automatically picks up this serial, which results in the error.
LQ-L was actually W5530, I have amended the database accordingly: http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=W5530
Andy

Jagan
2nd January 2023, 19:05
Thanks, link removed.
Presumably he's now unaccounted? - please excuse my ignorance on this, my speciality is the aircraft...

Hi Andy thanks for that - if you remove the aircraft linkage and remove the extra link to either AIR81 or forum post then they revert to unaccounted. always good to verify the page again which confirs he moved to unaccounted http://www.rafcommands.com/database/wardead/details.php?qnum=111371

Jagan
2nd January 2023, 19:09
Malcolm,
Well spotted. I can't seem to find a way of changing that date, so will defer to Jagan.
One other thing to resolve, our database records his unit as 46 Sqn: http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=Z2900
This squadron seems to have been in transit down the west coast of Africa at the time of the loss?
Andy
Andy

I updated the date, and also the reference link to AIR81 ... the date error comes from the original CWGC entry https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1533523/norman-macdonald-walker/

malcolm_raf
2nd January 2023, 19:40
19 Sep 1941

Aircraftman 1st Class Charles Henry ROBINSON (543517) - database states "Lost in aircraft Blenheim IV L9469 Failed to return from a raid to Wilhelmshaven."

However, that applies to Plt Off C H Robinson on 26 Jul 1940.

AC1 C H Robinson was serving with No 71 OTU in the Middle East.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
2nd January 2023, 19:44
Malcolm,
Thanks for spotting that, it does indeed look very likely that P4319 was involved. Does the ORB give any details of what actually happened please? There is no mention of an incident in the AM.78, with P4319 surviving until another fatal crash on 10 Oct 41, as per:
http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=P4319
Andy

Hi Andy

He was killed when he abandoned Hampden, P4319 at too low an altitude after control was lost over the bombing range at Otmoor, but the pilot recovered and made an emergency landing.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
2nd January 2023, 20:06
30 Sep 1941

Squadron Leader Keith Henry Augustus ELLIS (40813) Pilot database states he was lost in Blenheim IV Z7374 of N o 55 Sqn.

Z7374 was with 55 Sqn but was lost two days earlier and Sqn Ldr was not in the crew (ORB)

Sqn Ldr Ellis was serving on secondment to the Turkish Air Force at Ankara, and was killed in a flying accident whilst instructing a trainee pilot.

Malcolm

Andy Marden
2nd January 2023, 20:17
19 Sep 1941

Aircraftman 1st Class Charles Henry ROBINSON (543517) - database states "Lost in aircraft Blenheim IV L9469 Failed to return from a raid to Wilhelmshaven."

However, that applies to Plt Off C H Robinson on 26 Jul 1940.

AC1 C H Robinson was serving with No 71 OTU in the Middle East.

Malcolm
Thanks, link removed and unit adjusted to 71 OTU.

Andy Marden
2nd January 2023, 20:23
30 Sep 1941

Squadron Leader Keith Henry Augustus ELLIS (40813) Pilot database states he was lost in Blenheim IV Z7374 of N o 55 Sqn.

Z7374 was with 55 Sqn but was lost two days earlier and Sqn Ldr was not in the crew (ORB)

Sqn Ldr Ellis was serving on secondment to the Turkish Air Force at Ankara, and was killed in a flying accident whilst instructing a trainee pilot.

Thanks, corrected.

jonheyworth
2nd January 2023, 20:34
Ellis 40813 . His entry is now muddled on the database and he comes up as unaccounted when he's not

malcolm_raf
3rd January 2023, 10:54
13 Oct 1941

Sergeant John Lamont MOONIE (755287) - I think he should be 205 Sqn not 105 Sqn

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
3rd January 2023, 14:31
8 Nov 1941

Flight Sergeant Montague Leslie Josling KEAM (363999) - 730 Sqn - "Killed by flak during an attack on shipping in Blenheim Z7946 over the Ionian sea"

The aircraft was not Z7946 as that was in a 'Blackout Block'

Unit needs confirmation as 730 Sqn FAA was a Communications unit in the UK and 730 (Defence) Sqn was probably ay RAF Wyton?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
3rd January 2023, 19:33
7 Dec 1941

Sergeant Donald Macmaster MacALPINE (1117205) Pilot - shown in Wellington IC Z1089 on IBCC

However, those killed in Z1089 are registered in Banbury whilst MacAlpine is registered in Brackley.

The ORB states that MacAlpine baled out a 'A' Flight Wellington (not Z1089) when it iced up, but the pilot regained control and landed it safely.

I have also informed IBCC

Malcolm

IBCC have just confirmed that MacAlpine was not in Z1089 and are changing their entry.

malcolm_raf
3rd January 2023, 20:04
14 Dec 1941

Flight Lieutenant James Julius Frederick Henry BANDINEL (74326) - Hurricane I V7234

However, V7234 made a forced landing in March and during repair was converted to Mk II, being re-serialled BG617, so it was the latter that Bandinel was flying.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
3rd January 2023, 20:16
21 Dec 1941

Daniel John ALLIN (1155183) was in 38 Sqn together with Ivor Guest

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
5th January 2023, 10:22
17 Jan 1942

Squadron Leader Charles Evans ELLIOT (72745), database states he was killed at Seletar in Singapore, but his unit and burial location are both in Indonesia, a considerable distance away from Singapore, so Seletar seems unlikely?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
5th January 2023, 11:08
22 Jan 1941

AC2 Marcel Pietro BELCHER (1299000) - database states he was killed in the explosion of Hudson, AM602 of 407 Sqn at RAF North Coates, but his unit was No 1 FIS and his death was registered in Chippenham

Malcolm

dennis_burke
5th January 2023, 11:11
Squadron Leader Charles Evans ELLIOT (72745),
his remains were initially buried in Medan, Sumatra. Per the CWGC grave registration sheets.

The database lists an aircraft: AIR81/11648 Wellington W5417 Squadron Leader C E Elliott: killed; Group Captain D G Boddie: injured; enemy air raid at RAF Seletar, Singapore, 17 January 1942.
Theres a database error thus, shouldn't mention an aircraft.



That aircraft was lost in Europe:
Reference: AIR 81/11597
Description:
Pilot Officer R G Lindsay (RNZAF), Sergeant B A Adams, Sergeant C K German, Sergeant W G Tate, Sergeant R P Sperring, Sergeant R Cooke; missing believed killed; Wellington W5417, 104 Squadron; aircraft failed to return from operational flight over Essen, Germany, 15 January 1942

I don't have access to my GRO war deaths lists, what unit was he with as such.

jonheyworth
5th January 2023, 11:36
Squadron Leader Charles Evans ELLIOT (72745),
his remains were initially buried in Medan, Sumatra. Per the CWGC grave registration sheets.

The database lists an aircraft: AIR81/11648 Wellington W5417 Squadron Leader C E Elliott: killed; Group Captain D G Boddie: injured; enemy air raid at RAF Seletar, Singapore, 17 January 1942.
Theres a database error thus, shouldn't mention an aircraft.



That aircraft was lost in Europe:
Reference: AIR 81/11597
Description:
Pilot Officer R G Lindsay (RNZAF), Sergeant B A Adams, Sergeant C K German, Sergeant W G Tate, Sergeant R P Sperring, Sergeant R Cooke; missing believed killed; Wellington W5417, 104 Squadron; aircraft failed to return from operational flight over Essen, Germany, 15 January 1942

I don't have access to my GRO war deaths lists, what unit was he with as such.

RAF Kuanian

malcolm_raf
5th January 2023, 13:37
RAF Kuanian

On the basis of his burial details, he also couldn't have been killed at Seletar.

His unit was Kuantan

Malcolm

dennis_burke
5th January 2023, 14:19
Seletar comes from the details on the front cover of the AIR81 file, and is at present the only details available without looking into the file


No doubt within the file, there would be correct details.

The database could be updated for now to say - Killed in Sumatra, perhaps.

malcolm_raf
5th January 2023, 14:30
12 Feb 1942

Leading Aircraftman Leslie Kenneth HILL (1380430) - his unit his given as SS Empire Star by his description states SS Yin Pin

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
5th January 2023, 15:22
14 Feb 1942

According to AIR81 the composition of the crews of 62 Sqn was: -

V9233

BARKER, RONALD FREDERICK (759017) RAFVR - age 25 Flt Sgt
JOHNSON, RICHARD ARTHUR CHAFFEN (100543) RAFVR - age 26 Fg Off
POOLE, GEOFFREY (955799) RAFVR - age 23 Flt Sgt
TEMPLETON, WILLIAM (745908) RAFVR - age 30 Flt Sgt

AE592

ROBINSON, JOHN STEWART (89831) RAFVR - age 21 Fg Off
GUTERSOHN, GORDON CHARLES WAGER (968251) RAFVR - age 25 Flt Sgt
HARVEY, COLIN WILLIAM (966005) RAFVR - age 29 Sgt
ROBERTSON, JAMES (751555) RAFVR - age 22 Flt Sgt


All shown under the latter at present

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
5th January 2023, 15:27
14 Feb 1942

The following two airmen as stated as being killed in an ambush whilst in a car, presumably the same car?

However, SMITH, JAMES (560485) is shown as 4 Feb whilst RATCLIFFE, LESLIE (564972) is shown on 14 Feb, which date is correct or are they two different incident?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 10:02
25 Feb 1942

The following airman appears to be missing from the database: -

Flt Sgt CULLER, W F (785112) RAFVR - age Unknown - Singapore Memorial

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 11:23
1 Mar 1942

Flt Sgt Jozef Wiktor PIASECKI (P/783623)

AK856 was lost with No 117 MU not No 112 Sqn, Piasecki was also serving with No 117 MU, no mention of him in 112 ORB.

Malcolm

paulmcmillan
6th January 2023, 12:25
25 Feb 1942

The following airman appears to be missing from the database: -

Flt Sgt CULLER, W F (785112) RAFVR - age Unknown - Singapore Memorial

Malcolm

That's because I can't find him anywhere - not on Air 78 not GRO Overseas Death i Suspect a name mistake at CWGC

He is actually 785102 F/Sgt W F CULVER

Air 78

W F Culver 785102 1945 Royal Air Force

We been here before

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?24103-Flight-Sergeant-W-F-CULLER-(785112)-1942-02-25-Singapore-Singapore-Memorial&highlight=CHIA%20KIM%20LIANG&p=140173#post140173

Assumption is he did NOT die in ww2 and is William Frank Culver

Maybe his service record will confirm

paulmcmillan
6th January 2023, 12:40
CULVER William Frank of Springfield Bekesbourne near
Canterbury died 8 September 1956 at Kent and Canter-
bury Hospital Canterbury Probate London 8 October to
Esther Phyllis culver widow. Effects E420.

FreeBmd Aged 62 -- Born 1894/95


Name
William Frank Culver
Birth
Oct 1894 Woolwich, London, England


Record information.
Name
William Frank Culver
Birth
abt 1895 Kent, England
Departure
1921 Liverpool, England
Arrival
24 Jan 1921 Saint John, New Brunswick


Interned at Stanley Camp WW2

https://gwulo.com/taxonomy/term/1975/people?name=Culver&items_per_page=25

William Frank Culver 1894 1956 Male

https://gwulo.com/node/39893

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 14:03
6 Mar 1942

Flt Sgt Bruce APPLEBY (40955) was killed whilst flying in a Vildebeest III, of No 36 Sqn, which crashed into a paddy field on its return from a raid on the airfield at Kalidjati, having been damaged in the attack and ten suffering an engine failure.

Source - For Your Tomorrow Vol 1 - Errol Martyn

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 14:17
6 Mar 1942

Lieutenant Neil ANDERSON (103705V)

Database states: -

"Killed/Died during the evacuation of Tjilatjap, either during the ambush of evacuating train, blowing up of bridge or massacre of wounded airmen by Japanese. Refer to Bloody Shambles, Vol2, Pages 333-336"

However, the same book, page 320 states he was shot down during a raid on Kalidjati on 4 Mar 1942 and captured, dying two days later in captivity. If he had been captured he couldn't have been on a train ambushed by the Japanese, but could have been one of those massacred.

His entry may have been confused with Thomas Henry Anderson, whose death is shown on CWGC as 1 Feb 1943 but the database states 6 Mar 1942 as being the correct date.

Malcolm

paulmcmillan
6th January 2023, 14:50
Jon has confirmed that Flt CULLER, W F (785112) RAFVR - age Unknown - Singapore Memorial

Is actually a W F CULLEN 785102 and did not die in WW2 but was a PoW and notified safe 2 Sept 1945

Note his records have "785112" quoted and also he is down as 'W E' but I have no doubt 100% he is the same man

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 15:23
11 Mar 1942

Wing Commander Lewis Vere HIRST (21078) "died in Stafford Infirmary, Harrogate, Yorkshire"

He was serving with No 16 MU, Stafford and is buried in Harrogate but Stafford Infirmary, is not in Harrogate

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 15:32
11 Mar 1942

AC2 George WADSWORTH (1143006) - 35 Linthorpe Grove, Aston Road Haltemprice

Haltemprice isn't a place as such, but an area of East Yorkshire, Aston Road is in Willerby

Malcolm

(I used to frequent a brilliant live music venue in Aston Road)

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 15:37
14 Mar 1942

Corporal Frederick William WHEATLEY (1252055) - He was serving with the School of Clerks Accounting when he died in a military hospital (St Athan?) as the result of an accident. His death was registered in Bridgend.

Malcolm

jonheyworth
6th January 2023, 15:38
14 Mar 1942

Corporal Frederick William WHEATLEY (1252055) - He was serving with the School of Clerks Accounting when he died in a military hospital (St Athan?) as the result of an accident. His death was registered in Bridgend.

Malcolm

It was St, Athan hospital but there is no given cause of the nature of the accident in his records

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 15:42
15 Mar 1942

Flight Sergeant Stanley Raymond SQUIRES (610185) - "Lost in aircraft Hurricane X AM318"

However, 203 Sqn didn't operate Hurricanes and AM318 was dispatched to the USSR. So it was probably AH318 which was with 203 Sqn and was lost on this date, when it spun into the ground on an overshoot at LG39.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 15:48
It was St, Athan hospital but there is no given cause of the nature of the accident in his records

Hi Jon

I have confused us both because I've just realised I made an error:-

"He was serving with the School of Clerks Accounting when he died in a military hospital (St Athan?) as the result of an accident. His death was registered in Bridgend." should have referred to AC2 Horace PASK (1621780)

Corporal Frederick William WHEATLEY (1252055) - his death was possibly registered in Watford and he was serving with Fighter Command (Unit) so unlikely have been in St Athan Hospital?

Malcolm

jonheyworth
6th January 2023, 17:20
Hi Jon

I have confused us both because I've just realised I made an error:-

"He was serving with the School of Clerks Accounting when he died in a military hospital (St Athan?) as the result of an accident. His death was registered in Bridgend." should have referred to AC2 Horace PASK (1621780)

Corporal Frederick William WHEATLEY (1252055) - his death was possibly registered in Watford and he was serving with Fighter Command (Unit) so unlikely have been in St Athan Hospital?

Malcolm

I hadn't noticed but I thought it was Pask as I've researched him !

malcolm_raf
6th January 2023, 19:09
Cheers Jon

At least that confirms Pask at St Athan.

In the meantime 23 Mar 1942

Fg Off Kornel Roman STEFANUS (P/0664), AIR 81 states Oxford, T1088, but this aircraft was serving with No 107 OTU when it was struck off charge in 1945.

However, 3 (P) AFU lost N6429 at Bibury on 21 Mar 1942 so possibly he died from injuries.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
7th January 2023, 15:29
12 May 1942

Sgt Robert Charles LUXON (1199803) the database implies he was flying Hurricane I P2924 but his entry clearly states he was actually flying a Wellington.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
7th January 2023, 15:51
14 May 1942

WEAVER, WILLIAM (391936) RAF - age 41 - "seriously injured in an accidental fall dying of his injuries the same day in Gilson Road hospital Coventry"

However, his death is registered in Ashford, Kent, so unlikely to have died in Coventry?

Malcolm

Andy Marden
7th January 2023, 16:53
12 May 1942

Sgt Robert Charles LUXON (1199803) the database implies he was flying Hurricane I P2924 but his entry clearly states he was actually flying a Wellington.

Malcolm
The correct serial of the Wellington was P9294, as per AIR81/14248: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17206885
I have amended the database accordingly: http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=P9294
Jagan will be along to deal with all the other corrections recently submitted.

paulmcmillan
7th January 2023, 18:06
14 May 1942

WEAVER, WILLIAM (391936) RAF - age 41 - "seriously injured in an accidental fall dying of his injuries the same day in Gilson Road hospital Coventry"

However, his death is registered in Ashford, Kent, so unlikely to have died in Coventry?

Malcolm


As someone who lived in Coventry for a while I can state that it was actually called Gulson Road Hospital. But I can’t explain the main issue on difference in registration district

jonheyworth
7th January 2023, 23:07
As someone who lived in Coventry for a while I can state that it was actually called Gulson Road Hospital. But I can’t explain the main issue on difference in registration district

Ah ! This is on my to do list , see Weaver 391936 14/5/42 AND

Weaver 860309 16/5/42 can't both have the same fate, its been muddled. Its on my radar and I believe I have the details,

paulmcmillan
7th January 2023, 23:11
Qtr 2 1943

Weaver Thomas 39 Coventry 6d 846


Thomas WEAVER (860303) RAF 1942-05-16

malcolm_raf
8th January 2023, 14:49
26 Aug 1942

LAC Lemuel Walter BEDDOWES (945719) is shown being lost in Battle P6644 with 3 AGS, together with AC2 Eric Dobson in Scotland.

However, neither of these airmen is registered in Scotland.

Beddowes was serving at RAF Hereford and is registered as Walter L Beddow-arnth in Birmingham, whilst Dobson is registered as Dennis Eric Dobson in Surrey South-East.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
8th January 2023, 15:57
29 Sep 1942

William Leonard MACKMAN (534943) - his unit was No 17 Wireless Unit not 17 MU, which was in the UK

Malcolm

Andy Marden
8th January 2023, 16:19
15 Mar 1942

Flight Sergeant Stanley Raymond SQUIRES (610185) - "Lost in aircraft Hurricane X AM318"

However, 203 Sqn didn't operate Hurricanes and AM318 was dispatched to the USSR. So it was probably AH318 which was with 203 Sqn and was lost on this date, when it spun into the ground on an overshoot at LG39.


Malcolm,
Quite correct, the ORB confirms he was flying AH318, although it omits to mention that the aircraft crashed!
The AM78 confirms 1942.
Casualty record with the incorrect serial: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17083489
Quite a few sources wrongly have the year as 1943 (Air-Britain serials register, Gunby/Temple, SAAF 85)
I can deal with this one so have amended our database accordingly: http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=AH318
Andy

malcolm_raf
8th January 2023, 19:47
14 Oct 1942

AC2 William Arthur BARTON (1618038) is stated as being drowned on Lough Erne but he is not registered in Northern Ireland.

I have him with No 81 OTU and his death is registered in Whitchurch, Shropshire.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
8th January 2023, 20:16
19 Oct 1942

Flight Lieutenant Basil John Allan RENNIE (87414) was not killed in Anson R3310, the incident referred to on IBCC took place on 3 Oct 1941.

IBCC has also been notified.

Malcolm

Jagan
8th January 2023, 20:40
19 Oct 1942

Flight Lieutenant Basil John Allan RENNIE (87414) was not killed in Anson R3310, the incident referred to on IBCC took place on 3 Oct 1941.

IBCC has also been notified.


IBCC page does say "Night navigation exercise on 3 October 1942. Severe weather forced abandonment of aircraft at 2230 Hrs and aircraft crashed 1 mile west of Sutton St James. It is possible that Rennie was injured and died on 19 Oct 1942, some 16 days after the accident - although no injuries were recorded at the time of the crash."


Meanwhile, I have made most of the changes where applicable.. couple of questions remain




In the meantime 23 Mar 1942 Fg Off Kornel Roman STEFANUS (P/0664), AIR 81 states Oxford, T1088, but this aircraft was serving with No 107 OTU when it was struck off charge in 1945.

However, 3 (P) AFU lost N6429 at Bibury on 21 Mar 1942 so possibly he died from injuries.

I understand a typo of one or two letters but hesitate when the serial is so far off from AIR81. Can we get a confirmation via other sources on N6429



Ah ! This is on my to do list , see Weaver 391936 14/5/42 AND

Weaver 860309 16/5/42 can't both have the same fate, its been muddled. Its on my radar and I believe I have the details,

Making both Weavers unaccounted till this is figured out..

jonheyworth
8th January 2023, 22:06
Just want to say again how appreciated this all is Malcolm and how hard I know it is to revisit entries. I'm making a note of it all and I will have a shufti at them as far as I can

malcolm_raf
8th January 2023, 23:19
IBCC page does say "Night navigation exercise on 3 October 1942. Severe weather forced abandonment of aircraft at 2230 Hrs and aircraft crashed 1 mile west of Sutton St James. It is possible that Rennie was injured and died on 19 Oct 1942, some 16 days after the accident - although no injuries were recorded at the time of the crash."

But ORB and F1180 state R3310 was lost in 1941 not 1942 and Rennie was uninjured and his death is registered in Sleaford.

Malcolm

Andy Marden
9th January 2023, 10:27
14 Dec 1941

Flight Lieutenant James Julius Frederick Henry BANDINEL (74326) - Hurricane I V7234

However, V7234 made a forced landing in March and during repair was converted to Mk II, being re-serialled BG617, so it was the latter that Bandinel was flying.

Malcolm
I've just noticed that BG617 is not a valid serial for a Hurricane - it was in a black-out block of Oxfords.
Further thoughts anyone?

malcolm_raf
9th January 2023, 10:32
I've just noticed that BG617 is not a valid serial for a Hurricane - it was in a black-out block of Oxfords.
Further thoughts anyone?

Hi Andy

To confuse things further, A-B Serials does agree that BG617 was an Oxford but it has it with 20 (P) AFU and then being sent to SAAF

ORB is no use whatsoever.

Malcolm

Andy Marden
9th January 2023, 10:58
In the meantime 23 Mar 1942

Fg Off Kornel Roman STEFANUS (P/0664), AIR 81 states Oxford, T1088, but this aircraft was serving with No 107 OTU when it was struck off charge in 1945.

However, 3 (P) AFU lost N6429 at Bibury on 21 Mar 1942 so possibly he died from injuries.

Malcolm
N6429 has its own TNA entry, so I doubt that this was the aircraft involved: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17083575
It must be possible that T1108 (not T1088) is correct. It was a 3 (P) AFU aircraft. Maybe he walked into a propellor or something similar?

malcolm_raf
9th January 2023, 11:09
27 Oct 1942

Flt Sgt Albert Vernon ELLIOTT (575045) - shown as being in Wellington HX645 of No 38 Sqn.

However, Elliott was with No 39 Sqn but there is no mention of him in their ORB and he is not shown as part of the crew of HX645 i9n the 38 Sqn ORB.

He is also buried in Alexandria whilst the crew of HX645 are on the Alamein Memorial.

I suggest he is returned to unaccounted.

Malcolm

Andy Marden
9th January 2023, 11:21
To confuse things further, A-B Serials does agree that BG617 was an Oxford but it has it with 20 (P) AFU and then being sent to SAAF

ORB is no use whatsoever.


Whoops, you are quite correct Malcolm. I failed to notice the text at the start of the entry listing the many aircraft that went to the SAAF.
I've tried all the "obvious" Hurricanes (BG817 etc) but none of them stand out.

Andy Marden
9th January 2023, 11:24
But ORB and F1180 state R3310 was lost in 1941 not 1942 and Rennie was uninjured and his death is registered in Sleaford.


I think it is possible that someone has made 2 + 2 = 5. Maybe he was not killed in an aircraft accident at all?

Andy Marden
9th January 2023, 11:38
27 Oct 1942

Flt Sgt Albert Vernon ELLIOTT (575045) - shown as being in Wellington HX645 of No 38 Sqn.

However, Elliott was with No 39 Sqn but there is no mention of him in their ORB and he is not shown as part of the crew of HX645 i9n the 38 Sqn ORB.

He is also buried in Alexandria whilst the crew of HX645 are on the Alamein Memorial.

I suggest he is returned to unaccounted.


Malcolm,
According to: https://rotherhamwarmemorials.weebly.com/maltby-grammar-school.html
he died of wounds on that date
Andy

Ross_McNeill
9th January 2023, 11:55
GRO RAF Overseas Deaths Register also gives No.39 Squadron as unit confirming Malcolm's detail.

No.39 Sqn had a accident record on 27th with Beaufort AW381 in Egypt but no injuries or fatalities involved.

Ross

jonheyworth
9th January 2023, 13:53
N6429 has its own TNA entry, so I doubt that this was the aircraft involved: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17083575
It must be possible that T1108 (not T1088) is correct. It was a 3 (P) AFU aircraft. Maybe he walked into a propellor or something similar?

Are you all saying Stefanus P.0064 needs to be revisited from scratch ? Sorry but I'm a little confused

Andy Marden
9th January 2023, 14:07
No, not really. We know he was killed in an aircraft accident on 23 March 1942 at Bibury: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17083605
Our recent discussion is mainly about the serial number of the aircraft involved - nothing more.
Andy

jonheyworth
9th January 2023, 15:09
Rennie 87414 , there is no official record of his demise. Only a hand written entry appended which says : 87414 F/Lt Basil John Allan Rennie MC RAFVR 14 OTU B/Cmd 19.10.42

malcolm_raf
9th January 2023, 15:49
Malcolm,
According to: https://rotherhamwarmemorials.weebly.com/maltby-grammar-school.html
he died of wounds on that date
Andy

Interestingly, there is a Flt Sgt Elliott shown in the ORB flying as a captain with No 38 Sqn on 26/27 Oct in a raid on Tobruk in Wellington HX685, but the aircraft and crew return safely and there is no mention of Flt Sgt Elliott being wounded.

I've checked back to September 1942 and there is no Flt Sgt Elliott shown being wounded in 39 Sqn.

Also in October 1942 the bulk of 39 Sqn was moved to a transit camp because the aircraft were transferred to No 47 Sqn. A small detachment remained in Malta but there was no Flt Sgt Elliott listed in any of the crews.

I've checked 47 Sqn and he doesn't seem to have been transferred to them?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
9th January 2023, 15:55
1 Nov 1943

BAKER, FRANCIS GEORGE (77111) RAFVR - age Unknown Flt Lt
POWELL, CLIFFORD WILLIAM MORGAN (88702) RAFVR - age 23 Flt Lt
THIRDE, WILLIAM (R/80227) RCAF - age 21 Flt Sgt

All listed as Hudson FH343 of No 233 Sqn, but AB Serials shows FH343 belonging to OADU, so was probably on delivery flight to 233 Sqn

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
9th January 2023, 19:53
28 Nov 1942

The two shown below are recorded as being in Stirling BF399 of No 75 Sqn.

Sergeant Stanley Lawrence DRAYTON (1331697) Air Gunner Stirling I BF399 IBCCRAF 1942-11-28 30 OTU United Kingdom Newmarket CemeteryRef : Plot P. Grave 433.
Flying Officer Reginald Wallace ROGERS (J/11058) Stirling I BF399 Ext LinkRCAF 1942-11-28 75 Sqdn AIR27 Canada Thunder Bay (Riverside) Cemetery

Neither are listed in Chorley and Rogers wasn't even in the UK.

Drayton is registered in Stafford, so unlikely to have been killed at Oakington

Malcolm

jonheyworth
9th January 2023, 20:04
Reginald Wallace Rogers J.11058 , attached to 132 squadron was killed in a mid air collision over RCAF Tofino at 10:40 Hours in Harvard 3117 /4880 when it collided with Kittyhawk ET 849 42-3449

malcolm_raf
10th January 2023, 10:50
1 Dec 1942

Corporal Edward John MORLEY (352869) - "He was admitted dangerously ill to Oldmill Hospital Aberdeen on 12 November where he died at 10:55 Hours of carcinoma of the Lungs"

However, I can't see a registration for him in Scotland but there is an Edward J Morley registered in Hatfield.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
10th January 2023, 11:26
6 Dec 1942

Sgt William Frederick Douglas ROGERS (972624) - shown as being killed in Stirling N3723.

However, he is not listed in the crew of this aircraft, all of which survived, but two were injured.

His death was registered in Wandsworth and was attributable to a 'domestic incident'

Malcolm

jonheyworth
11th January 2023, 00:50
6 Dec 1942

Sgt William Frederick Douglas ROGERS (972624) - shown as being killed in Stirling N3723.

However, he is not listed in the crew of this aircraft, all of which survived, but two were injured.

His death was registered in Wandsworth and was attributable to a 'domestic incident'

Malcolm

Iíve just added him. He was IOM not Wandsworth

paulmcmillan
11th January 2023, 07:55
1 Dec 1942

Corporal Edward John MORLEY (352869) - "He was admitted dangerously ill to Oldmill Hospital Aberdeen on 12 November where he died at 10:55 Hours of carcinoma of the Lungs"

Could he have been transferred south between 12 Nov and 1st Dec ?? but his location not updated on the record

Family Tree on Ancestry says


Residence
29 Sep 1939 • St Albans Hertfordshire, England
Source: 1939 England and Wales Register. Marital Status: Married and recorded as incapacitated.

Death
1 Dec 1942 • Shenley Military Hospital, St Albans, Hertfordshire, England
Corporal in The Royal Air Force died on WW2 Service


UK Probate

MORLEY Edward John of 35 Marmion-close South Chingford E;sex
died I I)ecember 1942 on war service Administration Llandudno
25 March to Violet Caroline Morley widow.
Effects

However, I can't see a registration for him in Scotland but there is an Edward J Morley registered in Hatfield.

Malcolm

Died 01 December 1942

Age 39 years old


Son of George and Ruth Morley, of West Ham; husband of Violet Caroline Morley, of Stratford.


MORLEY, EDWARD JOHN 39
GRO Reference: 1942 D Quarter in HATFIELD Volume 03A Page 1154


Name: Edward John Morley
Baptism Date: 24 May 1903
Baptism Place: Stratford, St John, Essex, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Stratford, St John' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: George Amos Morley
Mother: Ruth Morley
Source Description: Service of Church: Registers of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials; Incumbent; Stratford, St John; Parish Records;1902-1908

BIRTH
MORLEY, EDWARD JOHN HARE
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 233

malcolm_raf
16th January 2023, 16:06
First for 1943

"Thomas HOLMES (1694085) - He died at home at Oaklands Road Hanwell London of anaemia pemphigus"

His death appears to be registered in Leeds, which is also the location of his home given in his probate entry and where he is buried?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
17th January 2023, 10:32
Hi

24 Mar 1943 - George Albert MARCH (955584) - The Wellington was HX633 'X' (ORB)

Malcolm

jonheyworth
17th January 2023, 12:39
First for 1943

"Thomas HOLMES (1694085) - He died at home at Oaklands Road Hanwell London of anaemia pemphigus"

His death appears to be registered in Leeds, which is also the location of his home given in his probate entry and where he is buried?

Malcolm

Well spotted, I've duplicated it, see Holmes 844525 which is correct

paulmcmillan
17th January 2023, 13:11
HOLMES Thomas of 1 Victoria-avenue York-road Leeds died 18
February 1943 on war service Administration Wakefield 21
June to Frances Letitia Holmes widow:
Effects £370 9s. 10d.


Deaths Mar 1943 (>99%)
Holmes Thomas 30 Leeds

there is however a Oaklands Road in Leeds: , Rodley, Leeds LS13

malcolm_raf
17th January 2023, 13:47
9 Apr 1943

Richard Frank OLIVER (564927) - database states he was flying Hurricane KX408, but this force landed in Berwickshire, Scotland and Oliver was registered in Clithero, Lancashire?

Malcolm

wwrsimon
17th January 2023, 14:42
Malcolm

From the National Probate Calendar:

OLIVER Richard Frank of Gorse Knoll, 27 Preston Old Road, Blackburn, died 9 April 1943 at Calderstones Emergency Hospital, Whalley, Lancashire. Administration Llandudno 8 June to Henry Charles Oliver, insurance agent.

Regards

Simon

malcolm_raf
17th January 2023, 15:21
Malcolm

From the National Probate Calendar:

OLIVER Richard Frank of Gorse Knoll, 27 Preston Old Road, Blackburn, died 9 April 1943 at Calderstones Emergency Hospital, Whalley, Lancashire. Administration Llandudno 8 June to Henry Charles Oliver, insurance agent.

Regards

Simon

Hi Simon

I was querying that he was flying KX408, if dying in Whalley

Malcolm

wwrsimon
17th January 2023, 17:10
Ah, I undertstand Malcolm.

If KX408 of 1 SLAIS crash landed at Leitholm in Berwickshire on April 9th 1943, would Oliver have been taken all the way to hospital in Whalley near Blackburn on the same day?

Regards

Simon

malcolm_raf
18th January 2023, 10:41
2 Jul 1943

William George GIBSON (1054250) - "admitted dangerously ill to the Military Wing of Doncaster Royal Infirmary on 21 June where he died of sub acute nephritis"

I think he may have been transferred or discharged nearer to home as his death is registered in Barrow in Furness

Malcolm

wwrsimon
18th January 2023, 14:28
Hello

With regards to William George GIBSON, Malcolm is indeed correct.

William George Gibson's Death Certificate is on a family tree on ancestry.co.uk, and it records that he died at 24 Douglas Street, Walney on July 2nd 1943 due to Bright's disease (an archaic term for nephritis). His father Mr. H. Gibson was present at his son's death.

His occupation is given as 'L.A.C. 1054250 R.A.F. (Capstan Lathe Machinist, Shipyard).'

Regards

Simon

paulmcmillan
18th January 2023, 14:46
9 Apr 1943

Richard Frank OLIVER (564927) - database states he was flying Hurricane KX408, but this force landed in Berwickshire, Scotland and Oliver was registered in Clithero, Lancashire?

Malcolm



1 SLAIS = No 1 Specialised Low Attack Instructors School what unit is Richard Frank OLIVER ?

HOBSON has him 24 Maintenance Unit at RAF Ternhill, Shropshire and Died

He is buried in Lancashire and appears to have been from Cherry Tree area of Blackburn

OLIVER, RICHARD FRANK SHAW
GRO Reference: 1913 S Quarter in BLACKBURN Volume 08E Page 589

So it looks like he had no connection to the Hurricane and died while at Home

paulmcmillan
18th January 2023, 14:48
Well spotted, I've duplicated it, see Holmes 844525 which is correct

So Holmes 844525

He died at home at Oaklands Road Hanwell London of anaemia pemphigus!

Is the following


ARTHUR JOHN HOLMES
Leading Aircraftman
Service Number: 844525
907/8 Balloon Sqdn.
Royal Air Force (Auxiliary Air Force)
United Kingdom
Died 26 March 1943
59 years old
HANWELL (CITY OF WESTMINSTER) CEMETERY
Plot 16. Grave 13321.
United Kingdom


Thomas HOLMES (1694085) is unknown only we know he died at home HOLMES Thomas of 1 Victoria-avenue York-road Leeds died 18
February 1943 on war service Administration

malcolm_raf
18th January 2023, 15:10
23 Jul 1943

Fg Off Roy Vernon ANDERSON (61346) - "He died at about 9.30 a.m. at Larbrax Bay, Leswalt, due to exposure."

I don't think he died at Leswalt, but may have been moved to the RAF Hospital at Wroughton as there is no death registration for a Roy Anderson in Scotland in 1943 but there is a 37 year Roy V Anderson registered in Swindon.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
18th January 2023, 15:15
1 SLAIS = No 1 Specialised Low Attack Instructors School what unit is Richard Frank OLIVER ?

HOBSON has him 24 Maintenance Unit at RAF Ternhill, Shropshire and Died

He is buried in Lancashire and appears to have been from Cherry Tree area of Blackburn

OLIVER, RICHARD FRANK SHAW
GRO Reference: 1913 S Quarter in BLACKBURN Volume 08E Page 589

So it looks like he had no connection to the Hurricane and died while at Home

Hi Paul

This must be a different Oliver because as the one at 24 MU died in Calderstones Emergency Hospital, Whalley, Lancashire (Clithero district) and is buried in Whalley Cemetery.

Malcolm

wwrsimon
18th January 2023, 15:45
23 Jul 1943

Fg Off Roy Vernon ANDERSON (61346) - "He died at about 9.30 a.m. at Larbrax Bay, Leswalt, due to exposure."

I don't think he died at Leswalt, but may have been moved to the RAF Hospital at Wroughton as there is no death registration for a Roy Anderson in Scotland in 1943 but there is a 37 year Roy V Anderson registered in Swindon.

Malcolm

His death was announced in the Liverpool Echo of July 28th 1943:

ANDERSON - passed away after a short illness, at Swindon, ROY VERNON, (Flying Officer), late manager of the St. Ann's Hotel, Buxton. Interment at Bishops Castle, on Friday next.

Regards

Simon

paulmcmillan
18th January 2023, 19:21
Hi Paul

This must be a different Oliver because as the one at 24 MU died in Calderstones Emergency Hospital, Whalley, Lancashire (Clithero district) and is buried in Whalley Cemetery.

Malcolm


Malcolm I have no doubt it is same Oliver it is just that I doubt he on Hurricane

malcolm_raf
19th January 2023, 09:48
Malcolm I have no doubt it is same Oliver it is just that I doubt he on Hurricane

Hi Paul

My apologies I misread your post and took the Blackburn entry as a death not a birth

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
19th January 2023, 11:08
19 Sep 1943

Maj Eric Cowley SAVILLE (103255V) - database base states he was flying Tomahawk AN311, however this aircraft served with 208 Sqn, NOT 260 Sqn and the 260 Sqn ORB confirms Saville was flying a Kittyhawk III.

Malcolm

paulmcmillan
19th January 2023, 13:42
Hi Paul

My apologies I misread your post and took the Blackburn entry as a death not a birth

Malcolm

Yes It is a bit unclear I should have Stated BIRTH

paulmcmillan
19th January 2023, 13:43
19 Sep 1943

Maj Eric Cowley SAVILLE (103255V) - database base states he was flying Tomahawk AN311, however this aircraft served with 208 Sqn, NOT 260 Sqn and the 260 Sqn ORB confirms Saville was flying a Kittyhawk III.

Malcolm

South African War Graves has the same info


https://warriorsofthesky.co.za/major-saville/

I wonder if fates for the following show a loss on 19 September 1943


Saville had combat or claimed victories in the following know aircraft:

Tomahawk IIb AN311 TA-C
Kittyhawk Ia FR214 GA-A
Kittyhawk Ia EV339 GA-N
Kittyhawk Ia EV136 GA-Q
Kittyhawk Ia EV368 GA-H

jonheyworth
19th January 2023, 14:57
Malcolm I have no doubt it is same Oliver it is just that I doubt he on Hurricane


Done check other thread

malcolm_raf
19th January 2023, 15:33
7 Nov 1943

LAC Jack ALLIBONE (1418796) database states he was in Wellington X, LN461 of 76 OTU.

However, his unit was RAF Haifa and he is buried in Khayat Beach War Cemetery, whilst the others on board LN461 are buried in Ramleh War Cemetery, so I doubt he was in this aircraft?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
19th January 2023, 15:39
South African War Graves has the same info


https://warriorsofthesky.co.za/major-saville/

I wonder if fates for the following show a loss on 19 September 1943


Saville had combat or claimed victories in the following know aircraft:

Tomahawk IIb AN311 TA-C
Kittyhawk Ia FR214 GA-A
Kittyhawk Ia EV339 GA-N
Kittyhawk Ia EV136 GA-Q
Kittyhawk Ia EV368 GA-H

These Kittyhawks didn't serve with 260 Sqn and are all IAs, whilst by the time of his death the squadron was operating Kittyhawk IIIs, unfortunately the ORB doesn't give serial numbers just states "12 x Kittyhawk IIIs"

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
19th January 2023, 19:49
1 Dec 1943

LAC Cecil Alfred James COLEGATE (1426731) - "He was dead on admission to SSQ at RAF Shipston at 07:40 Hours. The cause of death was found to be facial neuralgia"

Shipston should probably be Shipton (just outside York), which was the location of his unit, No 60 MU, but his death is registered in Oundle, so he was probaly transferred before he died.

Malcolm

jonheyworth
19th January 2023, 20:00
1 Dec 1943

LAC Cecil Alfred James COLEGATE (1426731) - "He was dead on admission to SSQ at RAF Shipston at 07:40 Hours. The cause of death was found to be facial neuralgia"

Shipston should probably be Shipton (just outside York), which was the location of his unit, No 60 MU, but his death is registered in Oundle, so he was probaly transferred before he died.

Malcolm

Or possibly transferred to a hospital mortuary and certified there. I've seen that a few times. It looked like they initially didn’t know what he’d died of so that fits.

malcolm_raf
20th January 2023, 10:30
Or possibly transferred to a hospital mortuary and certified there. I've seen that a few times. It looked like they initially didnít know what heíd died of so that fits.

It seems odd as Oundle is in Northamptonshire and is a long way from Shipton (Bulmer area) and the nearest hospital mortuary would have been York.

However, Oundle area includes King's Cliffe, Colleyweston and Polebrook, so is it possible he was on detachment and was admitted to one of these station SSQs
Malcolm

malcolm_raf
20th January 2023, 19:58
10 Jan 1944

Plt Off Herbert HARE (157317) - shown as serving with No 202 Group, but this group had disbanded in 1941 and wasn't reformed until August 1944, I have am as serving with 47 Sqn.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
21st January 2023, 19:13
24 Mar 1944

Arthur Francis Garnsey HUGHES (J/13752) - "Leigh Light Wellington GR.XIII hit by a bullet which killed air gunne"

He was actually flying as the Navigator in Albacore 'D' (ORB) not a Wellington.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
21st January 2023, 20:16
4 Apr 1944
John HANSON (1126040) - "He was seriously injured in an MT accident and was admitted to Peterborough Hospital where he died the following day of his injuries"

However, his death is registered in Ashford, Kent

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
21st January 2023, 20:26
5 Apr 1944

LAC Henry Edwin WHITING (1337430) - shown in Lancaster ME566 of No 101 Sqn.

However, his death is registered in Wandsworth and he is buried in Islington, whilst the crew of ME566 are all buried in Berlin.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
22nd January 2023, 10:04
9 Apr 1944

James Walter JONES (618625) - shown in Harvard AJ682 of No 22 SFTS

This unit was in Southern Rhodesia and Jones was serving with No 78 MU in the UK, his death is registered in Brecknock he is buried in Ffairfach (Tabernacle) Congregational Chapelyard

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
22nd January 2023, 10:50
19 Apr 1944

Alec Charles GILLARD (623002) - he is shown as being killed in Liberator, BZ864 but posts on the forum confirm that he was killed in a ground (propeller?) accident and wasn't a member of 160 Sqn

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
22nd January 2023, 11:16
29 Apr 1944

Cyril Christian KISSNER (257481) - is shown being lost in Catalina Z506 but the aircraft was actually a captured Cant Z506

Richard Malherbe OUTFIN (23296) was on board the same aircraft

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
22nd January 2023, 13:59
6 May 1944

Kenneth Alan BRELSTAFF (1123642) database shows him being posted to No 255 Sqn, but this was in the Middle East, he was with No 355 Sqn

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
22nd January 2023, 14:29
14 May 1944

Roger HOLDEN (1697354) - "He was admitted dangerously ill to Calderstone military Hospital Loughborough on 8 May. Dying of a perforated Ulcer"

I suspect he was moved near to home as his death is registered in Clitheroe.

Malcolm

wwrsimon
22nd January 2023, 16:27
5 Apr 1944

LAC Henry Edwin WHITING (1337430) - shown in Lancaster ME566 of No 101 Sqn.

However, his death is registered in Wandsworth and he is buried in Islington, whilst the crew of ME566 are all buried in Berlin.

Malcolm

The National Probate Calendar records that he died at Grove Hospital, Tooting, Surrey.

Regards

Simon

wwrsimon
22nd January 2023, 16:32
19 Apr 1944

Alec Charles GILLARD (623002) - he is shown as being killed in Liberator, BZ864 but posts on the forum confirm that he was killed in a ground (propeller?) accident and wasn't a member of 160 Sqn

Malcolm

Just to add to the mix, his death is recorded in ADM 104, and it records that he died at R.N.A.H. (Royal Navy Auxiliary Hospital) Colombo due to a 'crushed pelvis and multiple abdominal injuries (road accident).'

Regards

Simon

malcolm_raf
22nd January 2023, 19:01
The National Probate Calendar records that he died at Grove Hospital, Tooting, Surrey.

Regards

Simon

Cheers Simon

Tooting was in the Wandsworth district.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
22nd January 2023, 19:26
8 Jun 1944

Edwin William PEARCE (1138450) - shown in Anson LT116. which crashed in Wales.

However, I think he has been confused Sgt Leonard John PEARCE (1321554) who was in LT116.

E W Pearce was an AC1 and his death is registered in Northumberland South

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
22nd January 2023, 20:21
20 Jun 1944

Augustus Charles Edwards MERINGTON (1178335) I think the location of his accident would be South Stifford, Grays, Essex not South Stafford, he is registered in Thurrock.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
23rd January 2023, 16:04
3 Jul 1944

Thorold Anderton FIRTH (1577811) - is shown as a casualty in Anson, MG468 at Tiree.

However, he was on the strength of No 1 PHU and his death was registered in Wrexham, there is no death for a Thorold A Firth registered in Scotland.

Malcolm

paulmcmillan
23rd January 2023, 16:38
https://www.oswestry-tc.gov.uk/events/article/article/sergeant-thorold-anderton-firth-raf.html

Thorold Firth attended Aberdeen Grammar School and on his father’s appointment as GP in Llanrhaidr transferred to Oswestry Boys’ High School. Both brothers worked for the Midland Bank Limited for a period; Thorold for the Shrewsbury branch, where he joined the Home Guard. He volunteered for the RAF in August 1941 as a Navigator/Bombaimer and served in a number of camps in the UK until being posted to South Africa under the Empire Air Training Scheme. Just before completing his course he was taken seriously ill and returned to UK by hospital ship. He died, whilst on leave pending medical discharge, at his parents’ home Bronheulog, Llanrhaiadr on 3rd July 1944. His Death Certificate gives causes of death as 1(a) Generalized Tuberculosis (b) Pulmonary Tuberculosis; his age is given as 22years. He is buried in Oswestry Cemetery, in a War Graves Commission grave, and in addition to his name being on the Llanrhaidr War Memorial, he is also named the Oswestry Boys’ High School memorial in the Bryn Hafod playing field Oswestry.

malcolm_raf
23rd January 2023, 19:33
15 Jul 1944

David Leighton BARTLETT (575585) - is shown in Oxford, LW827 with No 25 SFTS in Rhodesia

However, according to A-B serials, LW827 only served with No 14 (P) AFU in the UK

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
23rd January 2023, 19:54
22 Jul 1944

Flt Lt Robert Faulkner MURRAY (117409) - shown as killed in a Spitfire VIII, however, he was killed whilst flying in a Mustang of the USAAF, which crashed during a low level roll at Asansol. At the time he was carrying out a liaison visit to exchange views and experiences with the USAAF.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
24th January 2023, 13:44
10 Aug 1944

Wilfred Sidney BOND (J/17190) - shown as flying Spitfire VIII JF665.

However, this aircraft is listed as being 'Damaged beyond repair' and was struck off charge o 17 Aug 1944, which suggests that it landed.

There are two 615 Sqn Spitfires shown in A-B Serials as breaking up in cloud on 10 Aug 1944 for which I don't have pilot assigned - MD276 and MD378, so I think it more likely that Bond was flying one of these.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
24th January 2023, 14:07
9 Aug 1944

Sgt Arthur Joseph Heathcote WHITE (1094493) shown as being in Mitchell II FR367.

There are a number of problems with White's and FR367's entries.

White is not listed as a member of the crew of FR367 on the 13 OTU ORB, the crew were three officers, the pilot being killed the other two injured.

The ORB states the accident occurred on 5 Aug 1944, and A-B serials quotes 30 Aug 1944, NOT 30 Jul.

White is shown on Hobson as being at Ludford Magna, which fits with his death registration, which was in Louth, but he is not shown in the Bomber Command Roll of Honour (Chorley Vol 9)

Any suggestions?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
24th January 2023, 14:45
21 Aug 1944

LAC Emanuel John PACE (961639) shown in Wellington BX LP617 of 37 Sqn.

However, Hobson gives him as being with No 159 MU and the 37 Sqn ORB confirms he wasn't on board LP617.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
24th January 2023, 15:24
27 Aug 1944

WO Robert Andrew WHYTE (1256128) shown as being lost in Mustang III FX892.

However, this aircraft crashed at Andover and Whyte's death is registered in Cheltenham.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
25th January 2023, 09:54
12 Oct 1944

Kazimierz KALINOWSKI (P/784884) states he died in Loughborough, but his death is registered in Nottingham

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
25th January 2023, 10:09
14 Oct 1944

William Fergus HARRIS (1571969) - Despite my initial suggestion that Harris was on board Warwick HG342, I appear to have a note added later stating his death was registered in Kilkenny, Ireland, so he was not on HG342

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
25th January 2023, 10:26
18 Oct 1944

Flt Sgt John Walter ROLFE (560680) - stated as a possibly in Anson EG210.

According to 'Clipped Wings Vol 3', there were no casualties in EG210

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
25th January 2023, 14:44
13 Nov 1944

Laurence IRVING (1032493) is shown as being with No 44 Sqn but I doubt this as 44 Sqn was in the UK and he died in India.

Malcolm

wwrsimon
25th January 2023, 15:27
13 Nov 1944

Laurence IRVING (1032493) is shown as being with No 44 Sqn but I doubt this as 44 Sqn was in the UK and he died in India.

Malcolm

His death was reported in the Halifax Courier of November 24th 1944:

Roll of Honour
L.A.C. Laurence Irving (31), brother of Mrs. E. Woodhead, 15, Woodside-place, Halifax, has died during November as a result of an illness while serving in India. Prior to joining the Forces, over three years ago, L.A.C. Irving had a newsagent's shop in King Cross-street, and was also an acting member of the Halifax Thespians. As a boy, he attended Sunnyside School.

His cause of death is noted in this post: http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?17483-441113-Unaccounted-Airwoman-amp-Airmen-13-11-1944&p=177667#post177667

The Graves Registration Report Form (https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2222297/laurence-irving/#&gid=1&pid=2) on his CWGC entry has a hand-written note '44 Sqdn' but as to when (or indeed why) this was added...?

44 Sqn S.A.A.F. was in the Mediterranean theatre, so not them either.

Simon

malcolm_raf
25th January 2023, 15:35
27 Nov 1944

Andrew ROYAN (1371896) - his unit FRU (Forward Repair Unit) not PRU

Malcolm

jonheyworth
25th January 2023, 15:40
14 Oct 1944

William Fergus HARRIS (1571969) - Despite my initial suggestion that Harris was on board Warwick HG342, I appear to have a note added later stating his death was registered in Kilkenny, Ireland, so he was not on HG342

Malcolm

A quick check shows that according to the ORB, only Crozier and McAllen were on board the Aircraft, so the other 3 Airmen appear to be errors ?

malcolm_raf
25th January 2023, 15:47
30 Nov 1944

Anthony Lawrence ADAMS (1038976) was serving with No 34 (Reconnaissance) Wing, not No 43 Wing

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
25th January 2023, 19:59
25 Dec 1944

Arthur Fairlie HAMILTON (1187583) - States "He died at 6.15 am at 20 Hamilton Street, Paisley of Pulmonary Tuberculosis and Abdominal Tuberculosis"

However, there isn't a death certificate in that name and he's buried in Heliopolis, Egypt.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
25th January 2023, 20:06
26 Dec 1944

Norman Owen BROAD (158699) states he was killed in Lancaster LM432 of No 9 Sqn near Horncastle.

However, he was serving with 2nd TAF and he is buried in Belgium.

Malcolm

PS This concludes my review of 1944

malcolm_raf
26th January 2023, 15:26
12 Jan 1945

Walter MORRIS (1422273) - shown in SAAF Oxford 3580 with AC2 E G Clear.

However, Morris was serving with 10 Air Depot, which was not at Nigel. He his buried in Johannesburg whilst Clear is buried in Nigel.

Malcolm

jonheyworth
26th January 2023, 15:42
[QUOTE=malcolm_raf;180686]12 Jan 1945

Walter MORRIS (1422273) - shown in SAAF Oxford 3580 with AC2 E G Clear.

However, Morris was serving with 10 Air Depot, which was not at Nigel. He his buried in Johannesburg whilst Clear is buried in Nigel.

Malcolm

Done see other thread

malcolm_raf
26th January 2023, 19:31
4 Feb 1945

William CHALMERS (1343313) is shown as being with 214 Sqn, but that unit was in the UK, he was with No 214 Group.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
26th January 2023, 19:36
4 Feb 1945

Percy Charles WILLIAMS (1324676) of No 12 FU shown as being lost in Spitfire IX ML295

However, ML295 was lost on 30 Jul 1944 with No 411 Sqn. This agrees with the aircraft database, so William's can't be can't be linked to it.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
26th January 2023, 20:02
11 Feb 1945

Fg Off Norman Storrs MORTON (151472) and Fg Off Robert Glyndwr SAVORY (152676) of No 22 Sqn RAF are shown being in Beaufighter A8-65

However, http://adf-serials.com.au/CMS/raaf2/2a8 states this aircraft was belly landed the next day whilst being flown by F/Lt E L Morton, Navigator H D Wilson of No 22 Sqn RAAF

I suspect the confusion as been caused by two Mortons and two 22 Sqns.

I think the more likely aircraft was NE657

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 09:38
21 Feb 1945

Keith Vincent BAILEY (170403) shown as being in Dakota IV KJ890 but the same entry also states he was flying Hurricane HW364, which he was.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 09:43
22 Feb 1945

John Patrick MacWILLIAMS (55426) - unit shown as 4 BY, it should be 4 FU

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 10:27
7 Mar 1945

Arnold Frederick BARON (1254111) shown in Halifax BIII NA111.

This was clearly taken from my website, where I had accidentally entered the wrong details from my database.

He was serving in India - No 3 Hill Depot.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 11:15
27 Mar 1945

Robert Mercer GLENDINNING (948046) - I think AD7 should be Adv for Advanced

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 13:57
5 Apr 1945

Robert Ernest DOWEN (1413058) and Norman John LUCAS (80398) are both listed as being in Vengeance EZ859.

However, they were both with No 20 SFTS in Southern Rhodesia and EZ859 was serving with 82 Sqn when it was SOC on 31 Aug 1944.

I have Harvard IIA, EX589 of CFS (SR) as a possible for this one.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 14:42
23 Apr 1945

John Stanley MATTHEW (1020381) - He was serving at RAF Hemswell and died in a hospital in Lincoln following an operation

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 15:12
27 Apr 1945

Raymond John THOMAS (1582072) shown as being lost in an unknown aircraft of 256 Sqn, which crashed or was shot down

However, the ORB does not mention any aircraft missing or lost that day and I can find no mention of a Flt Sgt R J Thomas amongst the aircrew, there was a Flt Lt I H Thomas.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 15:42
3 May 1945

Alfred Charles William BUTLER (1805516) - is shown as flying Spitfire MD335 but the same aircraft is shown for John James NUNN (162323) on 8 Feb 1945

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 16:03
9 May 1945

Gp Capt John Francis GRIFFITHS (24037) - he is shown as an air gunner but I doubt this, I believe the highest rank achieved by an AG during WW2 was Wg Cdr and he had originally joined the RAF on a short service commission before the war so must have been a pilot.

Malcolm

wwrsimon
27th January 2023, 16:39
9 May 1945

Gp Capt John Francis GRIFFITHS (24037) - he is shown as an air gunner but I doubt this, I believe the highest rank achieved by an AG during WW2 was Wg Cdr and he had originally joined the RAF on a short service commission before the war so must have been a pilot.

Malcolm

Malcolm

Details of his career can be found here: https://www.rcafassociation.ca/heritage/search-awards/?search=24037&searchfield=servicenumber&type=all

Regards

Simon

paulmcmillan
27th January 2023, 18:10
So he was a Pilot then!

malcolm_raf
27th January 2023, 20:05
30 May 1945

Thomas Robert STACEY (1468187) is shown as being involved in an accident with Spitfire NH437 in Cheshire

However, his death was registered in Fogo, Scotland and he was killed in a vehicle accident at Charterhall whilst serving with 54 OTU

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
28th January 2023, 10:36
7 Jun 1945

Roy Bosworth WILSON (1583830) of 22 SFTS shown in Hart SAAF 410.

This has been discussed previously but I have looked at it again.

410 was a Hart, which was SOC in 1944 and Winston Brent states Wilson was killed in Harvard 410, which as stated is a Hart serial.

However, Harvard EX410 was delivered to the SRAF and as a SOC date of 7 Jun 1946.

Could the serial have been written without the 'EX' and the year been written as 1946 instead of 1945?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
28th January 2023, 10:45
12 Jun 1945

Charles August Desmond COLLINS (1545213) - "Post Discharge Death. A medically discharged airman at the time of his death had been evacuated to the UK from 25 General Hospital and admitted to RAF Hospital Wroughton pending medical discharge he died of hypertension"

However, he must have been discharged from Wroughton as his death is registered in South Shields.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
28th January 2023, 11:17
22 Jun 1945

William Peter REES (1414735) - He died in the RAF Hospital, Church Village

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
28th January 2023, 11:31
30 Jun 1945

William Harold DAVIES (1675182) shown in Spitfire MT829

However, this Spitfire had been transferred to the RAAF as A58-611

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
28th January 2023, 15:46
15 Jul 1945

John James William LAY (508691) shown as an Air Gunner but as a member of the RAF Regiment, his trade would have been Gunner/Ground Gunner

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
28th January 2023, 16:06
23 Jul 1945

Kenneth Hugh CHRYSTAL (1050177) - I think "Died unscrew hospital" should read "Died in Crewe Hospital"

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
28th January 2023, 16:16
29 Jul 1945

Leslie Robert BLACKWELL (1186447) - was serving with 20 SFTS states he died from multiple injuries sustained in an aircraft accident

Henry William STANLEY (907567) - was serving with 20 SFTS states he died from multiple injuries but the cause is unknown

I wonder if these two could be involved in the same incident?

Malcolm

wwrsimon
28th January 2023, 16:19
23 Jul 1945

Kenneth Hugh CHRYSTAL (1050177) - I think "Died unscrew hospital" should read "Died in Crewe Hospital"

Malcolm

His death was announced in the Liverpool Echo, July 26th 1945:

CHRYSTAL - July 23, suddenly, at R.A.F. Station, Calveley, aged 31 years, Corporal KENNETH HUGH, dearly-loved husband of Dorothy Bell (nee Anderson) and loving father of Pamela Mary, and son of Alex and Mary Chrystal, of Wallasey. Interment at R.A.F. Regional Cemetery, Chester, to-morrow (Friday), at 2.30 p.m.

Regards

Simon

malcolm_raf
28th January 2023, 19:13
7 Aug 1945

LAC John CARTER (1131197) is stated to have been a WOp/AG but I doubt this as he was a LAC not a Sgt, so most likely he was a WOp (Ground)

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
29th January 2023, 10:26
5 Oct 1945

Reginald James ANSTEY (1205529) - his unit is No 5006 ACS not 50006

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
29th January 2023, 10:31
6 Oct 1945

Duncan MOUAT (1597461) is shown in Dakota IV KK123 of No 233 Sqn but he is not shown as a casualty in this aircraft in "The Price of Peace" by Colin Cummings.

Also the 'Ext Link' just takes you to the database entry for KK123

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
29th January 2023, 10:40
12 Oct 1945

Harold James STADDON (1809655) is shown to have died at North Luffenham.

He was serving at North Luffenham but he must have died away from the station as his death is registered in Ketton, whilst a death at NL would have been registered in Oakham

Malcolm

wwrsimon
29th January 2023, 11:53
6 Oct 1945

Duncan MOUAT (1597461) is shown in Dakota IV KK123 of No 233 Sqn but he is not shown as a casualty in this aircraft in "The Price of Peace" by Colin Cummings.

Also the 'Ext Link' just takes you to the database entry for KK123

Malcolm

He's one of my local airmen. From the 357 Sqn ORB Form 540 of July 1945:

Losses sustained during the month amounted to one Dakota KJ922, crew
658498 W/O Milne, Joseph Reid
1518745 Sgt. Clark, E M.
15211725 Sgt. Francis, Charles Raymond
1597461 Sgt. Mouat, Duncan
1598599 Sgt. Binns, Albert, missing.
The a/c took off from Base at 0630 hours on 30th July 1945. A further report was not received until 9th August 1945 when it was learnt that the a/c had crashed into the side of a valley down which it was flying; some 4 miles West of Biya; the crew of five were all killed. Another a/c operating on the same target was forced to turn back owing to impossible weather conditions and reported an operational failure, weather conditions along the route being reported as 8-10/10 CB. base 2-3000' (approx 7000' below the tops of the Chin Hills) & cloud tops up to 25-30000' with excessive turbulence causing a/c to be almost uncontrollable at times. Under these conditions it can be safely assumed that W/O Milne's crash was as a direct result of the weather over the area, in fact, weather over the Chin and Shan hills had during a month of already bad weather succeeded throughout in achieving a personal notoriety.

Regards

Simon

wwrsimon
29th January 2023, 12:06
12 Oct 1945

Harold James STADDON (1809655) is shown to have died at North Luffenham.

He was serving at North Luffenham but he must have died away from the station as his death is registered in Ketton, whilst a death at NL would have been registered in Oakham

Malcolm

I have a little bit more about him. His death was reported in the Bucks Herald of October 26th 1945:

WENDOVER
Death of Sergeant-Pilot J. Staddon
Youthful Victim of Motor Accident
The death occurred as the result of a motor accident at North Luffenham last week of Sergt-Pilot (Jimmy) Staddon, of 5, Chiltern Rod, at the age of 21. He was the only son of Mr. and Mrs. H. L. Staddon, who have live at Wendoever for some 15 years. Born at Cranwell and educated at Amersham College, Sergt-Pilot Staddon was also as [sic] one time a chorister in St. Agnes' choir and also at Halton Church.
Before joining the R.A.F., in 1943, he was employed with Messrs. Reader & Son, acutioneers, of Aylesbury. He carried out his flying training under the Empire Training scheme, at Oklahoma, U.S.A., where he graduated as a pilot and made many friends.

His death had been announced in the smae paper on October 19th:

STADDON - on 12th October, 1945, at R.A.F. Station, North Luffenham, Sgt.-Pilot Harold James Staddon (Jimmy) only son of Mr. and Mrs. H. L. Staddon, of 5, Chiltern Road, Wendover, aged 21 years - So many happy memories. God bless.

Regards

Simon

paulmcmillan
29th January 2023, 13:01
I wonder if he was taken by ambulance to hospital in Ketton district and pronounced dead on arrival ?

malcolm_raf
29th January 2023, 13:48
15 Nov 1945

Gp Capt Sidney Albert DISMORE () is shown as a WOp but the LG shows him as originally being a pilot in the GD Branch, although during WW2 he was in the Admin & Spec Duties Branch.

His S/N is 81162

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
29th January 2023, 14:43
20 Dec 1945

Alexander Edward TAYLOR (22030) is shown as a Flight Engineer, but he was a pilot

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
29th January 2023, 14:58
I wonder if he was taken by ambulance to hospital in Ketton district and pronounced dead on arrival ?

Looking at the map, it seems North Luffenham is quite close to Ketton and whilst the nearest village to NL, Edith Weston, is in the Oakham area, NL could be in Ketton.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
29th January 2023, 15:03
He's one of my local airmen. From the 357 Sqn ORB Form 540 of July 1945:

Losses sustained during the month amounted to one Dakota KJ922, crew
658498 W/O Milne, Joseph Reid
1518745 Sgt. Clark, E M.
15211725 Sgt. Francis, Charles Raymond
1597461 Sgt. Mouat, Duncan
1598599 Sgt. Binns, Albert, missing.
The a/c took off from Base at 0630 hours on 30th July 1945. A further report was not received until 9th August 1945 when it was learnt that the a/c had crashed into the side of a valley down which it was flying; some 4 miles West of Biya; the crew of five were all killed. Another a/c operating on the same target was forced to turn back owing to impossible weather conditions and reported an operational failure, weather conditions along the route being reported as 8-10/10 CB. base 2-3000' (approx 7000' below the tops of the Chin Hills) & cloud tops up to 25-30000' with excessive turbulence causing a/c to be almost uncontrollable at times. Under these conditions it can be safely assumed that W/O Milne's crash was as a direct result of the weather over the area, in fact, weather over the Chin and Shan hills had during a month of already bad weather succeeded throughout in achieving a personal notoriety.

Regards

Simon

So CWGC have the wrong date

I've now completed reviewing 1945

wwrsimon
29th January 2023, 15:10
So CWGC have the wrong date

His death was reported in the Sunderland Echo of October 9th 1945:

NOW REPORTED KILLED
Information has been received from the Air Ministry that Sergeant Air Gunner Duncan Mouat (20), whose home is at 177 St Leonard Street, Sunderland and previously reported missing, now known to have lost his life in air operations in the Far East on July 30.

Note the date of the article - three days after the Date of Death recorded on his CWGC entry.

Regards

Simon

malcolm_raf
31st January 2023, 16:02
14 Jan 1946

Sgt COMELIO, ROBERT BERTRAM ; RAF (332453), died at 1b Raddleborn Road, Selly Oak, Birmingham.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
31st January 2023, 19:36
25 Jan 1946

Frederick George BAILEY (509679) - "Died when the car he was driving collided with a lorry on the sealand road, near RAF sealand,, his passenger R O AYRES RAF died in February"

However, The Bailey killed in the car crash was Algernon Stewart (Robin) BAILEY (2204130), A S Bailey's and Ayres deaths are both registered in Chester.

F G Bailey's probate records state he died at Stoke Heath, Market Drayton, which his near his unit, No 24 MU at Ternhill and his death is registered in Whitchurch, the correct area for Market Drayton.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
31st January 2023, 19:55
4 Feb 1946

Clarence Alfred DEWS (1156462) - This entry includes details of other personnel, who are missing their own details.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
1st February 2023, 10:05
28 Feb 1946

Marion Esther SEYMOUR (435284) - "Died in the Royal Bucks Hospital Aylesbury after drinking a bottle of ammonia to commit suicide, she had been invalided out of the WAAF with psychosis following the death of members of her unit close to her in an air raid"

However, her death is registered in Ploughley, Oxfordshire, which does not cover Aylesbury?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
1st February 2023, 10:09
28-Feb 1946

AC2 JENKINS, NOAH ; RAFVR (1148561), age: 38 He died at the Ministry of Pensions Hospital, Chapel Allerton, Leeds.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
1st February 2023, 10:44
14 Mar 1946

William John BLANEY (1620460) - "21 MU Fauld, he was Killed at Tattenhall airfield when a rotten rope handle on an ammunition box broke when a 50 lb box of 5 photo flashes broke when being placed on a pile of such boxes and it exploded"

Tattenhall should be Tatenhill

Could he have died from injuries, because because his death is registered in Hendon, well away from Tatenhill?

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
1st February 2023, 20:23
29 Jul 1946

John CONYERS (1680119) - He died at Harpham, near Driffield, not in Salisbury.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
2nd February 2023, 09:52
18 Aug 1946

Stanley Herbert HALL (1513732) - I think 'sheep' should read 'jeep'

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
2nd February 2023, 14:06
6 Oct 1946

Antony GRAHAM (569351) - 'pastry road' should be Bawtry Road

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
2nd February 2023, 19:08
2 Nov 1946

Thomas Bruce LAIDLER (1344496) - His unit was No 317 S & TC, NOT No 317 SFTS.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
3rd February 2023, 10:36
5 Feb 1947

Charles BRYANT (43915) - "Collapsed watching a play in RAF Cranwell cinema"

However, his probate states he died in the Royal West Sussex Hospital, Chichester, whilst serving at RAF Thorney Island and his death is registered in Chichester.

Malcolm

malcolm_raf
3rd February 2023, 19:59
20 Nov 1947

Henry Norman BERRY (1009686) - Wellington RP500 - Crashed into sea of Bridlington, Kent, after engine failure

RP500 crashed off Birchington, Kent not Bridlington.

The only casualty on RP500 was WO Z Stepien.

Berry was registered in Leeds.

Malcolm

wwrsimon
4th February 2023, 10:30
20 Nov 1947

Henry Norman BERRY (1009686) - Wellington RP500 - Crashed into sea of Bridlington, Kent, after engine failure

RP500 crashed off Birchington, Kent not Bridlington.

The only casualty on RP500 was WO Z Stepien.

Berry was registered in Leeds.

Malcolm

The Yorkshire Evening Post of November 28th 1947 carried the followimg acknowledgement:

BERRY - Mrs. Norman BERRY, of 20, Silver Street, Newton Hill, Wakefield, wishes to thank doctors, sisters and staff of 21 Ward, Leeds General Infirmary, for their untiring kindness during her husband's illness.

Muriel Berry, at that time still Muriel Tomlinson, is on the 1939 Register at 20 Silver Street. Their marriage was registered at Lower Agbrigg in the April-May-June quarter 1941.

Regards

Simon

Suebedz50
31st July 2023, 13:46
Complete and utter rubbish, Lemuel Walter Beddowes was my father in law, his son Kenneth Beddowes is still alive. Lemuel died at Sherborne Road, Birmingham after committing suicide, he is buried at Brandwood End Cemetery Birmingham along with his mother and father.

paulmcmillan
31st July 2023, 19:03
Thanks for the post - though confused by your “complete and utter rubbish” comment - the record on his death on this site his is “self inflicted” and that is what you confirm

Kind regards

Tom.Higgs
31st July 2023, 19:28
Complete and utter rubbish, Lemuel Walter Beddowes was my father in law, his son Kenneth Beddowes is still alive. Lemuel died at Sherborne Road, Birmingham after committing suicide, he is buried at Brandwood End Cemetery Birmingham along with his mother and father.

Deaths & Causes are a matter of record. Anyone’s certificate can be purchased through the General Register Office without restrictions. The Ancestry British Newspaper Archive has details of legions of suicides and the subsequent inquests. The coroners records for your local area are viewable in your local archive if they are 75 years old. The Operational Record Books at Kew, freely accessible to all, have details of the circumstances of death of the Airmen in that Squadron.
Sadly, suicides due to the pressures of war were all too common. These men & women deserve to be remembered and their deaths are equally as valid as anyone who died by enemy action in a Spitfire or of some horrible illness contracted on service.
Why not submit some details and a photograph of Lemuel to the database to ensure his story & legacy is proudly perpetuated, not filed away and forgotten, because he deserves to be remembered with non judgmental honour & pride alongside his peers

paulmcmillan
10th September 2023, 14:23
https://www.rafcommands.com/database/wardead/details.php?qnum=107885

He did not die as result of air Raid but RTA

https://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?1372-400926-Unaccounted-airmen-26-9-1940


"Airman based at Henlow, killed in road accident, Sunday 29th September 1940
HAD/13 MU ORB : (AIR 19/971) Henlow
29/9/40 1162473 AC2 Rutter J L of No.13 S of TT killed at Redditch as a result of a road accident.
[BCPASPA : 29.9.40 1162473 AC2 John Lewis Rutter, RAFVR, 13STT, 20, of Kingís Norton. St Nicholas Churchyard, King’s Norton, Birmingham."

paulmcmillan
10th September 2023, 14:27
https://www.rafcommands.com/database/wardead/details.php?qnum=71148


https://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?1372-400926-Unaccounted-airmen-26-9-1940&highlight=EVERETT&p=7681#post7681
k
Did not died as a result of attack on Henlow but Air attack London

"Sirman from RAF Henlow, killed in air raid on London, Friday 20th September 1940
HAD/13 MU ORB : (AIR29/971) Henlow
21/9/40 No.1260103 AC2 Everett G S, died at the Royal Free Hospital, WC1, as a result of injuries received in an air raid on 20th September 1940, on London. [BCPASPA : 21.9.40 1260103 AC2 George Sidney Everett, RAFVR. Brookwood Military Cemetery, Surrey.]"

paulmcmillan
11th September 2023, 18:46
We have

https://www.rafcommands.com/database/wardead/details.php?qnum=59146

Leading Aircraftman Ronald Charles J. BROWN (799692) of the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve

His full name is Ronald Charles Jones BROWN 799692