410708 - Unaccounted airmen - 8-7-1941

[Henk Welting]

What were the places of death registration for:

AC2 Thomas DAVIDSON - 1144272;
AC1 William S. ELSMORE - 913573;
AC1 John M. MacDONALD - 1014028 - 9 Sqn (Honington, Suffolk;
LAC (Pilot u/t) Arthur D. MERRETTI - 1107250;
Asst Section Offr WAAF Josephine PIPON - 1045;
Sgt A. RAMSDEN (first name not known) - 1004368;
Sgt Leslie W. SMITH - 630023, and
P/O Robert E. WAUGH - 60584.

Proposed aircraft losses for this day:

Hurricane I - L1832 - 9 FTS - crashed on approach Castle Combe.
Magister I - R1848 - 15 EFTS - overshot landing at Kirkpatrick RLG.
Master III - W8466 - 60 OTU - crashed on take-off East Fortune.
Tiger Moth II - N6649 - 9 EFTS - crashed on approach Ansty.
Tiger Moth II - T6065 - 4 EFTS - dived into ground ½ mile E of Normanby/Yorkshire.

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

[alclark]

I don't know if you already have it your file but 15 EFTS recorded two accidents on the 8th July.

July 8th 1941, “Accident to Magister R1848 at Kirkpatrick R.L.G. – Pilot LAC Craddock A.E. misjudging approach and overshooting. Accident to Magister V1081 at Greenquarries Farm Dalston. Pilot Cpl Peszynski, M. Killed – Cause of accident unknown.”

I don't have any information about the others.

[RockHound]

Henk,

DAVIDSON, age 19, Fylde, Lancashire
ELSMORE, age 20, Pontefract (Possibly Tiger Moth T6065)
MACDONALD (McDonald in register) age 24, Bury St Edmunds (right for Honington)
MERRETTI, age 20, Chippenham. Right area for Hurricane L1832.
PIPON, age 20, Southampton
RAMSDEN, Alexander, age 25, Aylesbury. (Only one in register for Q3)
WAUGH, age 39, Bromley

Not managed to find SMITH yet.

Kind regards,

David

[RockHound]

630023 SMITH, (according to CWGC) is Leslie Norman not Leslie W, age 22, St Ives.

Regards,

David

[Rich Allenby]

Henk, whilst Im at work and dont have my records with me, the pilot of Tiger Moth II - T6065 - 4 EFTS, was not killed.

The Normanby refered to is almost certainly the one near Brough. I have the am1180 for it which i think states it crashed just after take off, or on approach to land. There are plenty of other Normanby's in Yorkshire but this one seems the most likely location.

one to delete from your list of possibles.

regards Rich

[Henk Welting]

Thanks all for your help; much appreciated.
Regards,
Henk.

[Ken MacLean]

Henk,

The Times has two mentions of PIPON. The first, on 10 July 1941 announces her funeral to be held at Upavon on that day and that she died in July "by enemy action". Josepine, daugher of Captain H.C.B. Pipon, Royal Navy.

The RAF Roll of Honour published 27 August 1941 has her Died on Active Service.

Regards, Ken

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Ken for additional info on WAAF Pipon.
Regards,
Henk.

[Rich Allenby]

Henk, or anyone !

The pilot of Tiger Moth T6065 which crashed on this day was one LAC E.D. Calvert (655195). Engine stopped whilst on approach, a/c stalled and dived into ground half mile east of Normanby. Cat R on Am1180 but then appears to have been Re-Cat W. Almost certainly this is the Normanby just over the Humber from Brough, and afew miles north of Scunthorpe.

regards Rich

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Richard for additional info on TM T6065.
Regards,
Henk.

[motherbird]

Hello Henk

I know it is rather late to reply to this topic but I can add a little bit to the story of Josephine Pipon.
I understand, from letters sent by my grandfather to my father that she was killed in an air-raid.
She had been a close friend of his son Charles Greville-Heygate who was a Blenheim pilot with Coastal Command. He had been reported missing just a few days before on the 26th of June.

cheers Motherbird

[dennis_burke]

That ties up with the 37 civilian casualties for the same date on CWGC, the majority of them are registered in the Southampton County Borough.

[motherbird]

I looked up to see if there was an air raid on Southampton that day but couldn't find any records. Is that where they died?

Motherbird

[dennis_burke]

My understanding would be that was the case. All casualties, killed that day in Southampton would have been registered by the civilian authorities, Southampton County Borough. The records on CWGC then show the burial data for the military and place of death for civilians.

You can check the casualties using Geoff Sullivans site here:
http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search39-47.php

Search for date: 08/07/1941
in the Regiment/Corps: field select CIVILIAN

That will show that days casulaties and goign through them you will see most were registered in Southampton, and where those deaths occurred. Some of the names might ring a bell with the old letters perhaps.

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Dennis and Motherbird for additional info on PIPON.
Regards,
Henk.

[dennis_burke]

AC2 Thomas DAVIDSON - 1144272; DOAS
AC1 William S. ELSMORE - 913573; DOAS
AC1 John M. MacDONALD - 1014028 - Can't find this rank and name to match in Flight archives.
LAC (Pilot u/t) Arthur D. MERRETTI - 1107250; Listed KOAS as "A. D. M. Merretti"
Asst Section Offr WAAF Josephine PIPON - 1045; Listed DOAS
Sgt A. RAMSDEN (first name not known) - 1004368; listed DOAS
Sgt Leslie N. SMITH - 630023, Cannot find him listed in Flight archvies
P/O Robert E. WAUGH - 60584. listed DOAS

cheers Dennis

[Henk Welting]

Is it possible that LAC (Pilot u/t) Arthur D. MERRETTI (death registered Chippenham) may have been killed on Hurricane L1832 of 9 FTS that crashed on approach Castle Combe.

Asst Sect Offr WAAF PIPON may have been listed in The Times 10-7-1941 being killed in air raid what means that DOAS should have been KOAS. (Killed on active service by enemy action).

Regards,
Henk.

[dennis_burke]

Offically she was DOAS, the first of the news reports was perhaps a family announcement of her death and hence 'killed' by enemy action, which indeed she was.

In RAF turns however, she must have been DOAS, perhaps off duty for example.

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/chippenham.html

There certainly is a CAstle Combe in that district and David (Rockhound) thought this to be the case also, above.

[motherbird]

Hi
I've just unearthed this Order for the Service funeral for Pipon amongst some old papers.
I thought it might be of interest to someone.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj60/reallyusefulboxes/Copyofpipponservice001.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj60/reallyusefulboxes/Copyofpipponservice002.jpg

Cheers Motherbird

[wwrsimon]

Hello

AC1 John M. MacDONALD - 1014028 - the Aberdeen Weekly Journal of July 17th 1941 carried the following announcement:

CAMERON - killed in England, John Mackay MacDonald or Cameron, R.A.F., beloved husband of Daisy Robertson, late of Edwin Cottage, Kennay, and adopted son of Mr. and Mrs. Cameron, Inverness.

LAC (Pilot u/t) Arthur D. MERRETTI - 1107250 - the Graves Registration Report Form records him with 9 F.T.S.

Sgt Alexander RAMSDEN - 1004368 - the West Yorkshire Deaths and Burials Register for Stanley, St Peter, lists him as dying at "Wendover R.A.F. Hospital" i.e. Halton.

regards

Simon

[jonheyworth]

Josephine Pipon 1045 , attached to the Central Flying School at RAF Upavon, was found dead in the wreckage of a house at 17 Warwick Road, Shirley, Southampton, on 8th July, following an air raid on Southampton

[jonheyworth]

Robert Ernest Waugh 60584 , attached to Number 1 RAF depot, died at home whilst on sick leave at Den Mead, The Glen, Farnborough, Orpington, of sub acute infective endocarditis with his wife, Jean Waugh, present

[jonheyworth]

Thomas Davidson 1144272 , died under anasthetic during an operation at RAF Hospital, Weeton.

This corrects a previous read across of mine thanks to the Eagle eye of Mark Peel

[jonheyworth]

Alexander Ramsden 1004368 , attached to Number 10 Signals Recruits Centre , was admitted dangerously ill to RAF Hospital , Weeton on 24 May , dying of melanoma metastasis following a transfer to RAF Hospital, Halton

[jonheyworth]

William Stanley Elsmore 913573 , attached to RAF Snaith, died at 21:45 Hours in a road collision 1/2 miles west of RAF Snaith