410829 - Unaccounted airmen - 29-8-1941

[Henk Welting]

What were the places of death registration for:

AC1 George C.D. BARK - 1270289 - 4 BC, 910 (Balloon) Sqn (Dagenham);
LAC (Pilot u/t) Cyril H. CHAMBERS - 1380464;
LAC John T. COSTINE - 1051037;
AC2 Thomas McI. DEAN - 1340770, and
Cpl Leslie S. FORDEN - 539901.

Proposed aircraft losses for this day:

Hurricane I - P3389 - 55 OTU - crashed on approach Usworth.
Hurricane I - V7314 - 8 FTS - crashed in forced landing 2 miles N of Stonehaven.
Magister I - N3908 - 60 OTU - crashed on take-off at night Macmerry.
Master I - T8407 - 8 FTS - crashed on take-off at night Huntley Hill Farm, Stracathro.
Oxford II - T1051 - 2 CFS - crashed on take-off at night 3 miles SW of Sibson.

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

[Roy Nixon]

Hi Henk,
You can rule out Hurricane I, P3389, on 29-8-41 on landing at Usworth on 55 OTU.
Sgt JH Stitt (ORB is blurred) RCAF R69217 uninjuried. Engine failure.
Regards,
Roy

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Roy. This note welcome as well because I also collect info on a/c losses where the pilot/crew survived.
Regards,
Henk.

[Dick]

Hi Henk
Bank, 31, registered at Thurrock, Essex could be right for a Unit based at Dagenham
Dean,25, registered at Fylde ,Lancashire.
Forden,25, registered at Sleaford,Lincolnshire
Chambers and Costine did not show up but I note that CWGC has them buried in Scotland and you have 3 Scottish incidents. Stracathro is quite close to Montrose where Chambers is buried. Costine is buried at Kilmarnock which doesn't fit any of your incidents but it would depend where his death was registered
Regards
Dick

[dennis_burke]

Bark, , DOAS
Dean,. DOAS
Forden, DIED OF WOUNDS OR INJURIES RECEIVED ON ACTIVE SERVICE
C H Chambers not found in Flight.
J T Costine KOAS -

regards

Dennis

[Henk Welting]

Thaks Dennis and Dick for your true support.
Regards,
Henk.

[paulmcmillan]

LAC (Pilot u/t) Cyril H. CHAMBERS - 1380464 Death Registered Stracathro, Angus - So Master I - T8407


LAC John T. COSTINE - 1051037; Death Registered Ballantrae, Ary

[alclark]

These are the ORB entries I have for the 29th.

No.3 SGR, “Botha aircraft crashed in sea at Rhosneiger Beach, Anglesey. No.P782028 Sgt Rosiewiez killed, No.1119294 LAC Dixon killed, No.1376289 LAC Glockler killed.”

No.8 FTS, “1380464 LAC Chambers, C.H. killed in Master I aircraft T8407 at Stracathro. Accident investigated by Wing Commander Simpson n 31/8/41.”

There were also a couple of accidents involving Commmonwealth aircrew.

[Ken MacLean]

Henk,

LAC C.H. Chambers KOAS, Times 21 October 1941.

[COL BRUGGY]

Snippets, from here and there :-

28 August,1941.

At 11 a.m., a Bristol [sic] Botha Torpedo Bomber from West Freugh(Stranraer), Kircudbright, crashed into the sea in shallow water off Rhosneigr, Anglesey, during a South-West Gale. Its crew consisted of a Polish pilot and two airmen under training, all of whom got out on the wings but, in the heavy seas, the two airmen were washed away and droened. The Holyhead lifeboat was under overhaul, and the Porthdinllaen lifeboat attended, but was unable to reach the aircraft because the water was too shallow. The Polish airman was seen by two 17 year old schoolboys on holiday, who launched a small dinghy, reached the wreck after 45 minutes but were then capsized. swimming to the airman, the boys managed to get him to their boat which was drifting to the shore some 500 yards away, but the badly weakened pilot drowned.
rescue efforts by boats and a whaler had all failed, and some of the rescuers were drowned. All members of the Royal Artillery who helped were serving with 226 L.A.A. Training Regt. and the R.A.F. men were stationed at R.A.F. Station Valley.

(Includes a listing of the RNLI members who were involved, along with their awards)

See: Lifeboat Gallantry:The Complete record of Royal National Lifeboat Institution Gallantry Medals and How They Were Won 1824-1996.
Cox,Barry (ed.).
London:Spink,1998.
p.290.

Also...

On 28th August 1941 the following entry appears in the Operations Record Book for 615 Squadron at RAF Valley:

'In a violent gale a Botha landed just offshore at Rhosneigr Bay and in addition to the crew of three, twelve rescuers were lost. They included 845761 LAC Ford,LA, the C.O.'s driver, who apparently tried to swim out. No one saw him go. Also, 819139 LAC Bannister,D.W., a Flight Mechanic out of 'A' Flight. Ten of our aircraft were patrolling and a number of Mae Wests and dinghies were dropped, some of which were picked up by those in the sea.

(Unsourced note in George Medal file).

Col.

[COL BRUGGY]

Should have added;

The schoolboys involved were:

Derek Hubert Baynham. Awarded a George Medal and a n RNLI Silver Medal for his efforts.
and,
John Leslie Stewart Wood, who was awarded a Silver Medal(RNLI).

Doubtless, Ross would have more.

Col.

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Col for all this additional info. Also had quite a lot of info collected from "History of RAF Valley" and "ORB 615 Sqn RAF Valley". One of the 'boys' (BAYNHAM) rose up to the rank of Brigadier in the Army and died 16-5-2006 at the age of 82.
Regards,
Henk.

[Henk Welting]

What do you mean with "Ary" in your message #7 ?

Henk.

[Ross_McNeill]

I've posted some of this before but make no apology for repeating the record of service that day again.

Ross

AUGUST 28TH. - PORTHDINLLAEN, CAERNARVONSHIRE.
A British bombing aeroplane had come down in the sea about 11.30 in the morning, off Rhosneigr, Anglesey, twenty miles away on the other side of Caernarvon Bay, and at 12.36 P.M. a message was received from the naval officer at Holyhead asking that the life-boat should be sent at once to the rescue. The motor life-boat M.O.Y.E. was launched at 12.48 and arrived off Rhosneigr at about 2.30. A moderate gale was blowing and the sea was rough. It was now three hours since the bomber had come down, and in the meantime very gallant efforts to rescue the aeroplane’s crew of three men had been made from the shore. All the attempts were unsuccessful, and eleven of the rescuers, as well as the three airmen, had been drowned. When the lifeboat arrived there was nothing to be seen except two aeroplanes overhead, and the life-boat searched for nearly an hour, but found nothing. She then returned to her station, arriving at seven in the evening.-
Rewards, £4 12s.

Thirteen Medals for Gallantry
RHOSNEIGIR, ANGLESEY
On the 28th August, 1941, determined efforts were made to rescue the crew of a British aeroplane which had crashed in the sea.
MR. DERRICK H. BAYNHAM was awarded the silver medal.
MR. JOHN L. S. WOOD was awarded the silver medal.
SECOND LIEUTENANT PETER T. WHYSALL, R.A. was posthumously awarded the bronze medal
BATTERY SERGEANT-MAJOR ALFRED W. MOGER, R.A. was posthumously awarded the bronze medal.
GUNNER CLARENCE H. THORNTON, R.A. was posthumously awarded the bronze medal.
GUNNER REGINALD EATON, R.A. was posthumously awarded the bronze medal.
MR. ARTHUR J. OWEN, Second Officer, Mercantile Marine, was posthumously awarded the bronze medal.
POLICE CONSTABLE GEORGE C. ARTHUR was posthumously awarded the bronze medal.
SERGEANT C. JACKSON, R.A. was awarded the bronze medal.
LANCE BOMBARDIER T. TAYLOR, R.A. was awarded the bronze medal.
GUNNER J. W. PARKINSON, R.A. was awarded the bronze medal.
COASTGUARD OFFICER EVAN JONES was posthumously awarded the bronze medal.
AIRCRAFTSMAN 1st CLASS ALBERT E. ATKINSON was awarded the bronze medal.

JANUARY MEETING
SILVER MEDAL SERVICE AT RHOSNEIGIR
RHOSNEIGIR, ANGLESEY.
About 11.30 in the morning of the 28th of August, 1941, a British bombing aeroplane
crashed in the sea off Rhosneigir. A gale was blowing from the south-west, with a very heavy sea. The nearest life-boat, the Holyhead motor lifeboat, was at a shipyard for overhaul, and her crew were away fetching a relief life-boat. The Porthdinllaen motor life-boat was called out and launched at 12.48 in the afternoon. She reached Rhosneigir about 2.30. By that time there was nothing to be seen of the aeroplane, but even had the life-boat been able to arrive earlier the aeroplane was in water so shallow that it would have been impossible for the life-boat to reach her and rescue the crew. The most gallant attempts at rescue were made by four shore boats, and by many people working from the beach, but all the efforts failed, and not only were the three airmen lost, but eleven of the rescuers.

The honorary secretary of the Holyhead life-boat station, who visited Rhosneigir afterwards, said that these gallant attempts must have been hopeless from the start, for the seas that were driving on shore with the tide running out against them were not rolling in and breaking on the open beach in the usual way, but moving like walls of water, with curling tops. Almost as soon as the aeroplane came down on the water two of her crew were washed off her. The third clung to the fuselage. He was seen by two boys of seventeen, Mr. John L. S. Wood, of Chester, and Mr. Derrick Baynham, of Walton-on-Thames. With a total disregard for their own safety they at once launched a small dinghy and set out to the rescue. It took them three quarters of an hour of hard rowing to reach the aeroplane, and they showed wonderful seamanship in handling, and keeping afloat that small open boat through the heavy seas. But as they turned it to go alongside the aeroplane, a sea caught it broadside on and capsized it. Both the boys were thrown into the water, but both succeeded in clinging to the over-turned boat. Then they left it and swam to the aeroplane on which the airman was crouching. When they had regained their breath they decided to make for their boat again. It was being driven shoreward and they feared that at any moment the aeroplane might sink. They persuaded the airman, a Pole, to go with them. He had been slightly injured in the crash, and was weak from shock and exposure. He was scarcely able to help himself, and was supported by the two boys as, battered by the seas, they struggled to keep their heads above water. The aeroplane as well as the boat was being carried shoreward, and in their struggle they used anything they could get hold of, an oar, the boat and occasionally the aeroplane itself. In this way they gradually drifted nearer to the shore and one of the boys and the airman managed to seize a beach defence post. It was not strong enough to bear their combined weight,
so the boy left the airman to hold on to it, and again struck off towards the shore. Both the boys had now almost given up hope of reaching another defence post or the shore itself, but people on the shore, who had watched their splendid struggle, were preparing to go to their help. They formed a human chain, reaching far out from the shore, and this chain succeeded in seizing and passing in the two boys.

Unfortunately it was not able also to rescue the Polish airman. He was actually then in his own depth as he clung to the post, but he was so exhausted that he could not hold on. He lost his grip, was swept away and drowned. Meanwhile other, very gallant, efforts had been made to reach the aeroplane. One man had put out in a boat alone, but was forced by the heavy seas to turn back. Then nine men put out in a whaler. Seven of them were soldiers and the other two were an officer of the merchant navy and a police constable. They must have realised that they were making an almost hopeless attempt, at the risk of their own lives, but they refused to listen to the warning of other people on the shore.

They felt it their duty to make the attempt. They succeeded in rowing the whaler well out to sea, but in trying to bring her under the lee of the aeroplane they were caught and capsized by a heavy sea, and were thrown into the water in all directions. One of the nine men managed to struggle ashore himself. Two, neither of whom could swim, clung to an oar. A man swam out from the beach to help them, and brought them in. They were only half conscious, but were revived. The other six men were all washed up, but it was impossible to revive them. Yet a fourth boat put out with two men on board, a coastguard and an
aircraftsman. This boat too was capsized. The coastguard was drowned, the aircraftsman was saved. People on shore saw the capsize of the boats and the men on board them thrown into the water, and fourteen soldiers and airmen swam out to help them. Four of these fourteen men lost their lives.

During these heroic efforts aeroplanes were flying low overhead and dropping life-belts to the rescuers struggling in the water.

The Institution made the followingawards to those who had attempted rescue with the use of boats :
To JOHN L. S. WOOD and DERRICK BAYNHAM, each the silver medal forgallantry, with a copy of the vote inscribed on vellum. They were also both awarded George Medals, and received money rewards from the Air Ministry, and silver cigarette-cases from General Sikorski, Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Forces, with his signature on them ;
To SERGEANT C. JACKSON, LANCE BOMBARDIER T. TAYLOR and GUNNER J. W. PARKINSON, the three survivors of the nine men who manned the whaler, each the bronze medal for
gallantry, with a copy of the vote inscribed on vellum ;
To AIRCRAFTSMAN(1St Class) ALBERT E. ATKINSON the survivor of the two
men who manned the fourth boat, the bronze medal for gallantry, and a copy of the vote inscribed on vellum.

The bronze medal for gallantry,with a copy of the vote inscribed on vellum, was also posthumously awarded to each of the seven men who lost their lives in the boats,
as follows : SECOND-LIEUTENANT PETER T. WHYSALL R. A. BATTERY
SERGEANT-MAJOR ALFRED W. MOGER,
GUNNER CLARENCE H. THORNTON,
SECOND MATE, MERCANTILE MARINE,
ARTHUR J. OWEN, POLICE CONSTABLE
GEORGE C. ARTHUR, COASTGUARD
OFFICER EVAN JONES and GUNNER
REGINALD EATON.

The Royal Humane Society rewarded those who had made attempts at rescue by swimming.

Fourteen men put out in boats.
Seven of them lost their lives. Fourteen men swam out. Four of them lost
their lives.

RNLI Records of Service 1939-46

[paulmcmillan]

All

Many thanks for this very interesting information, I don't suppose someone could post the serial of said Botha

Thanks

Paul

[Ross_McNeill]

Paul

L6417

Regards
Ross

[paulmcmillan]

Ross

Thanks

Paul

[davew]

Costine was a victim of the crash of Lysander T1675 of TFPP (?) that crashed at Beneraird Hill, Ballantrae, Ayrshire. Another fatality in this incident was Marcus JA.

On the same page of the register is recorded the death of Leading Airman Frederick B Bavidge at Downan Farm, Ballantrae on 14/7/1941. I understand this was as a result of Swordfish P4199 fhg. FAA A/c 1939-45 provides the names of the other crewmen, Woods SFJ, pilot and Robinson M, both also killed.

regards

DaveW

[Henk Welting]

Yes, WOODS, BAVIDGE and ROBINSON were on Swordfish P4199 of 821 Sqn FAA, coded 'B'.

ATA File (Chris Pointon) http://www.raf-lichfield.co.uk/ATA%20Casualties.htm has for T1675: On ferry flight Lyneham to Prestwick and flew into hill "New Luce, Wigtownshire".
Could this be the same location ?

Regards,
Henk.

[Dick]

Henk
I think for ARY you should read AYR
Regards
Dick

[davew]

Henk

Beneraird Hill is on the border between Ayrshire and Wigtownshire and evidently the crash was on the Ayrshire side. The site is nearer Ballantrae , where the deaths are registered, than New Luce anyway. I will advise Chris Pointon.
Regards

DaveW

[COL BRUGGY]

In my haste, and as Ross confirms, I neglected to mention that, Schoolboy John Leslie Stewart WOOD, was also awarded a George Medal.

See:Dragons Can Be Defeated:A Complete Record of the George Medal's Progress from 1940 to 1983.
Henderson,D.V., GM. Major(Ret'd).
n.p.,:Spink & Son Ltd,1984.
pp.18 & 97.

Col.

[paulmcmillan]

Joint Citation for George Medal can be read here:

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.aspx?pdf=35437&geotype=London&gpn=491&type=ArchivedSupplementPage&all=Baynham&exact=&atleast=&similar=

[jonheyworth]

Thomas McIvor Dean 1340770 , attached to 3 Wing of Number 10 SOTT, died in RAF Hospital, Kirkham following a umbilical fistula appendectomy