Air Crashes at Sea Civilian War Dead CWGC

[Linzee]

In case it is of interest to anyone else, I stumbled upon a section on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website that I was previously unaware of. Air Crashes at Sea Civilian War Dead.

There are 60 entries and the link to the reports pages is here http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_reports.aspx?cemetery=4004465&mode=1

Regards
Linzee

[dennis_burke]

I noticed this group before, my interest being in Thomas Allitt who was killed very firmly on the hard rocky slopes of Sleiveglas in Kerry, below Mount Brandon, Ireland.

Infact, T Allitt is listed twice on CWGC, this listing and another showing his burial in Liverpool.

Here they are sorted by date of death, this probably won't display very well.

Name Rank Service Regiment Date Of Death Age

Lost on Blenheim L1408 - See message number #20 below from Col. Bruggy. Radar Technician
GORDON , D M Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/07/40 Unknown

Listed twice on CWGC, On Vildebeest IV, K6408, see post #10 below.
DAWSON, HARRY, H Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/08/40 Unknown

CAMERON, GEOFFREY VALENTINE, G V Civilian ( Batchelor of Arts ) * Civilian War Dead 23/05/41 37

These people all on Dragon G-ACPY shot down.
http://www.rafdavidstowmoor.org/pages/crash_log/crashlog41.htm

ANDERSON, WILLIAM DONALD, W D Civilian * Civilian War Dead 03/06/41 Unknown
GRIFFITH, GEORGINA EDITH LUCY, G E L Civilian * Civilian War Dead 03/06/41 Unknown
LEGGITT, JOHN, J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 03/06/41 Unknown
LEGGITT, SHEELAGH MARGUERITA, S M Civilian * Civilian War Dead 03/06/41 Unknown
LEGGITT, JEANINE, J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 03/06/41 11
LEGGITT, RONALITA, R Civilian * Civilian War Dead 03/06/41 9

I might suggest these men might be connected to RAF FC Hudson AE545, who Christie in Ocean Bridge lists the crew as F/L R F Leavitt, Elwood Wallace McFall and Robert Desmond Anderson. Tho Anderson below is credited with a DFC by his CWGC entry.
McLEAN , W Civilian * Civilian War Dead 20/09/41 Unknown
ANDERSON , H D Civilian * Civilian War Dead 21/09/41 Unknown

Lost per Ocean Bridge by Christie with Hudson AM940 out of Gander with RAF FC.
SMALL , C H Civilian * Civilian War Dead 27/09/41 Unknown

DAVIDSON, CHARLES JOHN, C J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 16/12/41 45
His entry lists him as: of H.M. Dockyard, Malta. Husband of Winifred Gladys Davidson.

This man lost per Ocean bridge with Hudson AM932 out of Gander with RAFFC.
MEYERS, HORACE GAYZAL, H G Civilian * Civilian War Dead 24/01/42 Unknown

Lost on Hudson AM946 of the OADU 1. (confirmation required) See message #19 from Col bruggy below.
VINTCENT, NEVILL, N Civilian * Civilian War Dead 29/01/42 Unknown

Google Books results suggest these men were on board Short S.23 G-AEUH which was shot down off the coast of Timor this date.
CUTFIELD , H E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 30/01/42 Unknown
FARRELLY , G A Civilian * Civilian War Dead 30/01/42 Unknown

These next two, On Liberator G-AGDR
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4898
BELL, HAROLD EDWARD, H E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 15/02/42 Unknown
PARKER, THOMAS EDWARD, T E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 28/02/42 Unknown <--- Not confirmed

Ocean Bridge by Christie list this man, Flight Engineer, lost on Liberator 41-1119 out of Gander with four other men, Doherty, Woodmason, Stanley, Carefoot. Douglas is twice listed on CWGC.
DOUGLAS, HAMISH IAN, H I Civilian * Civilian War Dead 25/04/42 Unknown

These men lost on the Flying boat "Clare" off the African coast. See post #35 and others.
BEARD , R E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 14/09/42 Unknown
PALMER , C L Civilian * Civilian War Dead 14/09/42 Unknown
Same date on CWGC lists a Capt. Charles Leonard Palmer on the Brookwood Memorial, Unit as General List. There is no similar person named Beard.

Listed in Ocean Bridge by Christie as lost on Mitchell FR369 with three RAF airmen out of Gander. Radio Operator.
VINE, LEONARD, L R J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 15/10/42 34
he also has a double listing on CWGC, as a RAFTC man.

Lost on Liberator AL516 of 511 Squadron in crash at Gibralter. See message #17 from Brian for details
ASTON, ISABELLA JOSEPHINE, I J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 Unknown
ASTON, SIMON, S Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 2
CHASE, EDNA PATRICIA, E P Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 27
CHASE, THOMAS, T Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 Unknown
HUCKLEBRIDGE, MABEL, M Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 30
ROWE, EDWARD JAMES, E J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 40
ROWE, HANNAH EUNICE, H E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 44
SHELDON, ELIZABETH PRISCILLA, E P Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 42

On board Douglas DC-3 G-AGBB shot down in the Bay of Biscay. Leslie Howard being the 'famous' passenger on board.
CHENHALLS, ALFRED TREGEAR, A T Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 43
COWLRICK, FRANCIS GERMAN, F G Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 Unknown
HOWARD, LESLIE, L Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 50
HUTCHEON, CAROLINE ANNE, C A Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 1
HUTCHEON, PETRA, P Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 11
HUTCHEON, ROTHA VIOLET LETTIE, R V L Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 38
ISRAEL, WILFRED JACOB BERTHOLD, W J B Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 Unknown
MACLEAN, GORDON THOMPSON, G T Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 58
PATON, CECILIA AMELIA FALLA, C A F Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 Unknown
ROZEVINK, ENGBERTUS, E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 26
SHARP, IVAN JAMES, I J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 Unknown
SHERVINGTON, TYRRELL MILDMAY, T M Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 51
STONEHOUSE, EVELYN PEGGY, E P Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 22
STONEHOUSE, KENNETH, K Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/06/43 35

On board General Sikorsky's aircraft Liberator AL523.
LOCK, WALTER HEATHCOTE, W H Civilian ( Master of Arts ) * Civilian War Dead 04/07/43 42

Captin of BOAC Sunderland G-AGES crashed in Kerry, Ireland.
ALLITT, THOMAS, T Civilian * Civilian War Dead 28/07/43 Unknown

Lost on Expeditor HB271 per Col. Bruggy Mesage #18 below, pending confirmation.
Flight Magazine carried this story: March 20th 1945
SIR ARCHIBALD SINCLAIR stated in the Commons last week that no trace had so far been iound of Capt. Robert Bernays and .Mr. J. Dermot Campbell, whose aircraft has been missing since January 23 in a flight from Rome to Brindisi.
CAMPBELL, JOHN DERMOT, J D Civilian * Civilian War Dead 23/01/45 47

York C.1 serial MW116 of 511 Sqn <-- Found by Finn Buch, see his posting below.
http://www.rafcommands.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?forum=DCForumID6&mark=8472&az=next_topic&archive=yes
All men are listed as British Delegation to the Crimea Conference.
BATTLEY, HARRY JOSEPH, H J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/02/45 36
CHAPLIN, JOHN, J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/02/45 34
DEW, ARMINE RODERICK, A R Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/02/45 38
GUTHRIE, ROBERT MACDONALD, R M Captain ( Retd. ) * Civilian War Dead 01/02/45 48
LOXLEY, PETER NOEL, P N Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/02/45 39
SULLIVAN, PATRICIA MAXWELL, P M Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/02/45 23


These men are listed in Ocean Bridge by Christie as lost on Liberator AL504 'Commando'

ABRAHAM, Sir JOHN BRADLEY, J B Civilian * Civilian War Dead 27/03/45 63
BANNISTER, VICTOR IAN CLAUD JAMES, V I C J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 27/03/45 30
JONES, HENRY ALBERT, H A Civilian * Civilian War Dead 27/03/45 51
ROBINSON, ERIC, E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 27/03/45 35
TWENTYMAN, EDWARD, E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 27/03/45 57
WILLIAMS, FREDERICK WALTER, F W Civilian * Civilian War Dead 27/03/45 32

[Argus]

Hi,

I do recognize the movie actor Leslie Howard very well (The Scarlet Pimpernel), so 01/06/43, must be the loss of passenger aircraft DC-3 from BOAC, G-AGBB?

Departure from Lisboa, shot down in the Bay of Biscay.

Regards

Finn Buch

[aestorm]

What about Glenn Miller ,the jazz band leader ? His plane went down in the Channel, I think. I expect he's not listed, being an American citizen, or was he in the USAAF ?

Was his disappearance due to "friendly fire " ?

Another question .Was it thought that Churchill was on Leslie Howard's plane or that Howard was serving in an official capacity ?

Anne

[Argus]

Hi,

This old link from 2006, a thread between Henk Welting and Peter Davies, date 01/02/45:

http://www.rafcommands.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?forum=DCForumID6&mark=8472&az=next_topic&archive=yes

has another loss, York C.1 serial MW116 of 511 Sqn. Anybody who can confirm a connection with the civilian passengers?

Regards

Finn Buch

[dennis_burke]

Thats it Finn, I ought to have been able to find that but didn't. I'm going to edit my big posting about to avoid future confusion.

[dennis_burke]

Alton Glenn Miller was American and assigned to the USAAF when he went missing in December 1944, his name is on the www.abmc.gov website:

Alton G. Miller
Major, U.S. Army Air Forces
Service # O-505273
Army Air Force Band
Entered the Service from: New Jersey
Died: 15-Dec-44
Missing in Action or Buried at Sea
Tablets of the Missing at Cambridge American Cemetery
Cambridge, England
Awards: Bronze Star

[Marks]

Hi,

Just noticed Hamish Ian DOUGLAS 25/4/1942 Ferry Command is mentioned twice by the cwgc once as civilian and again as Ferry Command - commemorated Runnymede Memorial panel 288 !

Mark

[allan125]

What about Glenn Miller ,the jazz band leader ? His plane went down in the Channel, I think. I expect he's not listed, being an American citizen, or was he in the USAAF ?

Was his disappearance due to "friendly fire " ?

Another question .Was it thought that Churchill was on Leslie Howard's plane or that Howard was serving in an official capacity ?

Anne

Hi Anne

Glenn Miller - If I remember correctly somebody (maybe on the BBC veterans website) said that they dumped their "friendly" bombs into the channel on the way back from a cancelled raid, or they had engine trouble, and they saw a little plane way down below!!

Leslie Howard - again, if I remember correctly, his Manager was supposed to bear a close resemblance to Churchill - but whether this aircraft was specifically picked upon because of Howards propaganda value, or the resemblance to Churchill of his manager it has been mentioned in the book "Bloody Biscay: The Story of the Luftwaffe's Only Long Range Maritime Fighter Unit, V Gruppe/Kampfgeschwaber 40 and Its Adversaries, 1942-1944 - by Chris Goss or as Amazon put's it "The attack in which the famous British actor, Leslie Howard perished is also described, clarifying the facts surrounding one of the more enduring mysteries of WWII."

cheers

Allan

[dennis_burke]

Test Flying Memorial
http://www.testflyingmemorial.com/1940-45.htm

On the memorials website is listed the loss of Vildebeest K6408
CREW FATALITIES: Plt Off A. Bailey, TP; AC2 Budd, Photographer

P/O Alfred Bailey can be found on the CWGC buried in Gosport. The GRO indexs show an Alfred Bailey registered in Gosport district, aged 26, I expect this is him, CWGC show no age for him. The GRO refererence being Vol. 2b pg.1457

AC2 Budd does not however show up on CWGC or in the death register index.

The lists of RAF Casualties printed in Flight magazine dated Aug 22nd 1940 includes P/O A Bailey 40976 listed under Killed on Active Service.

The same lists include an A/C.2 E. S. Budd 977714 but listed under "Wounded or Injured on Active Service".
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940&#37;20-%202372.html?search=budd

HArry Dawson is listed twice on CWGC
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3168809
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3113170

There are two entries, both for Harry Dawson, one for August 1st and the other for August 5th. Both entries name the same woman as wife. The Second of the two links above gives the following information:
of 2 Waverley Terrace, Great Horton, Bradford, Yorkshire. Husband of Irene Dawson. in aeroplane crash in sea, off Ryde.

The difference in dates perhaps points to his body being recovered some days after the crash.

The death registers list a Harry Dawson aged 32 in Gosport district, Vol. 2b pg 1458.

Might it be that there were three men on the aircraft, Bailey, Budd and Dawson, a civilian

EDIT: Fully cleared up here:
http://www.gosport.info/History/Anns_Hill_Cemetery_War_Graves_/Anns_Hill_Cemetery_War_Graves_/anns_hill_cemetery_war_graves_2.html

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=943&highlight=dawson

[dennis_burke]

For Campbell above, along with R H Bernays, the following two RAF men are on the Malta Memorial.

W/O James W McStay, No unit on CWGC but GRO RAF List him with "MED COMM SQDN"
F/O Derrick Hargreaves, CWGC lists him with 55 Sqdn but the GRO RAF lists him with no unit!

I'm sure these are listed in the book "Though With out Anger."

[aestorm]

Dennis & Allan
Thank you .I had a feeling Glenn Miller was in the USAAF .He had a uniform on in the film The Glenn Miller Story !

Anne

[allan125]

Dennis & Allan
Thank you .I had a feeling Glenn Miller was in the USAAF. He had a uniform on in the film The Glenn Miller Story !

Anne

Hi Anne

A great film - I am always "in the mood" to help - I have always been a Glenn Miller fan - he was a major in the USAAF, this is from the wikipedia site - so he won't be on the CWGC site as he was a member of the US forces

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Miller

On December 15, 1944, Miller was to fly from the United Kingdom to Paris, France, to play for the soldiers who had recently liberated Paris. His plane (a single-engined UC-64 Norseman, USAAF serial 44-70285) departed from RAF Twinwood Farm in Clapham, Bedfordshire and disappeared while flying over the English Channel. No trace of the aircrew, passengers or plane has ever been found. Miller's status is missing in action.

There are three main theories about what happened to Miller's plane, including the suggestion that he might have been hit by Royal Air Force bombs after an abortive raid on Siegen, Germany. One hundred and thirty-eight Lancaster bombers, short on fuel, jettisoned approximately 100,000 incendiaries in a designated area before landing. The logbooks of Royal Air Force navigator Fred Shaw recorded that he saw a small, single-engined monoplane spiraling out of control and crashing into the water. However, a second source, while acknowledging the possibility, cites other RAF crew members flying the same mission who stated that the drop area was in the North Sea.

In a book published in 2006, Clarence B. Wolfe, a gunner with Battery D, 134th AAA Battalion, in Folkestone, England, claims that his battery shot down Miller's plane. However, Wolfe's account has been disputed.

Another book by Lt. Col. Huton Downs, a former member of Dwight D. Eisenhower's personal staff, argues that the U.S. government covered up Miller's death. Downs suggested that Miller, who spoke German, had been enlisted by Eisenhower to covertly attempt to convince some German officers to end the war early. The book goes on to suggest that Miller was captured and killed in a Paris brothel, and his death covered up to save the government embarrassment. However the Publishers' Weekly review talks of "breathlessly written suppositions".

When Glenn Miller went missing, he left behind his wife, the former Helen Burger, originally from Boulder, Colorado, and the two children they adopted in 1943 and 1944, Steven and Jonnie. Helen Miller accepted the Bronze Star medal for Glenn Miller in February of 1945.

I would have thought that his flight plan could have been cross-referenced with the known designated area to dump bombs by now?

cheers

Allan

[aestorm]

Thanks Allan
I'm digressing from Linzee's original post .The Glenn Miller film had the song "Ha Ha ha you & me, little brown jug how I love thee" in it .Something I remember from seeing the film in the late 1950s or early 1960s

I only discovered Leslie Howard films in my late teens in the early 1960s & thought he was lovely !
It was only much much later that I learnt about his death.

The Duke of Kent [George V's youngest son] was killed in a Sunderland ?? crash in Scotland WW2. Was he regarded as a civilian or was he in uniform ?

Anne

[allan125]

Hi Anne

The Duke of Kent was in an official capacity in the RAF - see below - plenty of theories for the crash - one was that he was flying the plane himself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_George,_Duke_of_Kent

Leslie Howard played R J Mitchell in "First of the Few" - which I have on DVD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_of_the_Few

cheers

Allan

[aestorm]

Allan
The book "Missing -Believed Killed" by Roy Conyers Nesbit has a 31 page chapter on the Duke's flight & others, such as Glenn Miller.

Anne

[brian]

Hi guys & gals

The following were all aboard the ill-fated Liberator AL516 of 511 Squadron that crashed at Gibraltar en route from Malta on the night of 31 October/1 November 1942. In addition to 10 civilans (the other two were injured) there were 24 airmen including the crew of six, all of whom survived (two injured including the captain Flt Lt R. Walton). Six tour-expired fighter pilots lost their lives and several of the others were injured, including the legendary Plt Off Screwball Beurling DSO DFC DFM (the top-scoring Malta ace)

ASTON, ISABELLA JOSEPHINE, I J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 Unknown
ASTON, SIMON, S Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 2
CHASE, EDNA PATRICIA, E P Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 27
CHASE, THOMAS, T Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 Unknown
HUCKLEBRIDGE, MABEL, M Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 30
ROWE, EDWARD JAMES, E J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 40
ROWE, HANNAH EUNICE, H E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 44
SHELDON, ELIZABETH PRISCILLA, E P Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 42

Of the above, Isabella Aston was the Maltese wife of a FAA pilot, and Simon was their baby son; Thomas Chase was the baby son of Edna Chase.

The incident is covered in my books - 'Spitfires over Malta' and the older 'Malta: The Spitfire Year'

Hope this helps

Brian (PS I have a new book on Screwball Beurling coming out very soon!!)

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello All,

23-1-1945
Mediterranean & Middle East Communication Sqn.
Beech Expediter II HB271

Missing during flight in icing conditions, between Rome and Brindisi. (Carrying a parliamentary team visiting troops in the Med.).

174116 F/O (Pilot) Derrik HARGREAVES RAFVR + (Malta Memorial. Panel 18, Column 1)
1385244 W/O James Warden McSTAY RAFVR + (Malta Memorial. Panel 18, Column 1)
136061 Lt Robert Hamilton BERNAYS RE + (M.P. - Bristol [North], since 1931).
(Commemorated on the Cassino Memorial, Panel 3).
Civilian: John Dermot CAMPBELL (Civilian War Dead) + (Deputy Lieutenant., M.P. - Co. Antrim, since 1943)

All the above is provisional, and needing confirmation.

Corrections/Additions welcome.

Col.

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello All,

Vintcent, not on board G-AEUH.

29-1-1942
1 OADU
Hudson III AM946

Missing on flight between Portreath and Gibraltar.

(In Alpha order)

951745 F/Sgt John Albert BOLLE RAFVR +
89331 F/O Derek John GEE RAFVR +
625018 F/Sgt Davy John PITCHER RAF +
Civilian: Nevill VINTCENT OBE,DFC + (Civilian War Dead)

Bolle,Gee & Pitcher commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial.

Subject to confirmation. Corrections/Additions welcome.

Col.

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello All,

Appendix 4.

Losses of Blenheim night-fighters.

31-7-1940
No.25 Sqn.
Blenheim IF L1408

Failed to return from conducting AI trials over Bristol Channel, collided with L6722 (below).

Sgt J Thompson +
AC2 E Toy +
Mr D Gordon +
(Gordon was a radar engineer from Martlesham Heath where L1408 was based).

31-7-1940
No.29 Sqn.
Blenheim IF L6722

Failed to return from conducting AI trials over Bristol Channel, collided with L1408 (above).

Sgt E Waite +
Sgt C Richardson +
LAC T Ward (from 32 MU) +

See:
The Bristol Blenheim:A Complete History.
Warner,Graham
Manchester:Crecy,2002 (1st ed.)
p.244

Check 2nd edition for updates.

Col.

[dennis_burke]

Col and Brian, thats super, I've added basic details to me first big post and directed readers to your posts.

At this point the only open questions still are:

Listed twice on CWGC, also as "Husband of Irene Dawson. in aeroplane crash in sea off Ryde"
DAWSON, HARRY, H Civilian * Civilian War Dead 01/08/40 Unknown

CAMERON, GEOFFREY VALENTINE, G V Civilian ( Batchelor of Arts ) * Civilian War Dead 23/05/41 37


I might suggest these men might be connected to RAF FC Hudson AE545, who Christie in Ocean Bridge lists the crew as F/L R F Leavitt, Elwood Wallace McFall and Robert Desmond Anderson. Tho Anderson below is credited with a DFC by his CWGC entry.
McLEAN , W Civilian * Civilian War Dead 20/09/41 Unknown
ANDERSON , H D Civilian * Civilian War Dead 21/09/41 Unknown

DAVIDSON, CHARLES JOHN, C J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 16/12/41 45
His entry lists him as: of H.M. Dockyard, Malta. Husband of Winifred Gladys Davidson.

BEARD , R E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 14/09/42 Unknown
PALMER , C L Civilian * Civilian War Dead 14/09/42 Unknown
Same date on CWGC lists a Capt. Charles Leonard Palmer on the Brookwood Memorial, Unit as General List. There is no similar person named Beard.

[Linzee]

I'm amazed! I only started this thread to draw attention to the Air Crashes at Sea Civilian War dead category on the CWGC website as it's not very easy to find. I only stumbled on it when I was looking for something else, and despite having visited the website hundreds of times didn't know it existed. I thought it could be useful for other researchers to know about.

I'm amazed (as always) at the wealth of knowledge produced from users of this board, and the great thing about the info provided is that it should pop up in search engines now which the info on the CWGC website doesn't seem to.

Many thanks to all who have added additional info about the losses which I'm sure in the coming years will prove to be useful to many. I've certainly learnt a lot more having read through it.

Regards
Linzee

[dennis_burke]

I adjusted the message above about Harry Dawson to include a suposition about his maybe being on the Vildebeest aircraft.

As regards C L Palmer,

UK National Archives has file

Records of Special Operations Executive 1936-1992
HS 9 Special Operations Executive: Personnel Files (PF Series)
HS 9/1139/4 Charles Leonard PALMER - date of birth not known, died 25.09.1942

Date of death is different and there is no similar one for R E Beard.

But then it seems a good chance they were on the BOAC S.23 Clare G-AFCZ.
This old thread closed with five names unaccounted for.
http://www.rafcommands.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=printer_format&om=2150&forum=DCForumID6

[COL BRUGGY]

Dennis,

Title should read -Re: Beard/Palmer - 14/09/1942!

The following needs to be knocked into shape:

14/15-9-1942
British Overseas Airways Corporation.
S.30 Empire Flying-boat G-AFCZ "Clare".

In transit from Bathurst, Gambia, to Britain via Lisbon, Portugal. Forced-landed with engine trouble at 14.20N 17.32W, broke up and sank. Six crew and thirteen passengers killed.

Crew:

27204 F/O (First Pilot) George Bertram MUSSON RAF (RAFO), Seconded to BOAC + - Malta Memorial.
122135 P/O (Act. First Off./Second Pilot) Arthur Douglas Charles JENKINS RAFVR + - Runnymede Memorial.
1375499 Sgt (2nd Nav.Off.) Eric Edwin LACE RAFVR, Seconded to BOAC + - Malta Memorial.
First Officer (Sup.Nav.Off.) A O CUNDY BOAC + - Malta Memorial.
Radio Officer Edgar Frederick Goldie BRENT BOAC + - Malta Memorial.
Radio Officer J A WYCHERLEY BOAC + - Malta Memorial.

Passengers:

926353 F/Sgt (Obs.) Alfred Charles ALLBERRY RAFVR + - 37 Sqn. - Fajara War Cemetery*
NZ404678 P/O Terence Albert DIXON RNZAF + - 37 Sqn. - Malta Memorial.
655178 Sgt James Victor GLANSFIELD RAF + - 37 Sqn. - Malta Memorial.
72159 W/C Ronald Ogilvy Maurice GRAHAM RAFVR, DFC + - CO. 37 Sqn. - Malta Memorial.
1014109 F/Sgt George Ball HARDMAN RAFVR + 37 Sqn. - Fajara War Cemetery*
1059568 F/Sgt William KELLY RAFVR + 37 Sqn. - Maltal Memorial.
Can J/4525 F/Lt James Frankish MAGUIRE RCAF + 37 Sqn. - Malta Memorial.
78645 S/L John Arthur Hampden PARKER RAFVR + 37 Sqn. - Malta Memorial.
580863 W/O Alick Edward TURLEY DFM RAF + 37 Sqn. - Malta Memorial.

*Two reported in FYT1/248, as buried at sea. In the Amendments to Volumes One & Two (FYT3/553), Errol states: (Vol.1/p.248), DIXON,T A - for Alamein Memorial, read Malta Memorial. There were nine (not eight) ex-37 Sqn. airmen on board, also two British Army officers , a member of the Free French and a civilian.

All the above is provisional, and needs work.

Who has a copy of, 'Though Without Anger'?

Col.

[dennis_burke]

I've emailed the BA museum just now, that'll put it to sleep I think.

[Ross_McNeill]

We have discussed Dawson before

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=943&highlight=dawson

TTU Vildebeest K6408

Ross

[dennis_burke]

Fail on my part! That clears that up. I mailed the Test Memorial last night.
Cheers Ross

[Errol Martyn]

926353 F/Sgt (Obs.) Alfred Charles ALLBERRY RAFVR + - 37 Sqn. - Fajara War Cemetery*
1014109 F/Sgt George Ball HARDMAN RAFVR + 37 Sqn. - Fajara War Cemetery*

*Two reported in FYT1/248, as buried at sea. In the Amendments to Volumes One & Two (FYT3/553), Errol states: (Vol.1/p.248), DIXON,T A - for Alamein Memorial, read Malta Memorial. There were nine (not eight) ex-37 Sqn. airmen on board, also two British Army officers , a member of the Free French and a civilian.

Col.

Col,

A copy of a No.5 MREU report dated 21 Jun 48 held on the service record of one of the RNZAF members on board listed 8 'tour expiry' passengers, including Allberry and Hardman.

In para 2 it reported that 'An immediate search was carried out but no trace could be found of the aircraft or its occupants, though it is believed that the bodies of Sgt Hardman and F/Sgt Ballberry were later recovered from the sea.'

When preparing FYT1 I had access to the printed register for the Fajara War Cemetery (pub 1950s?) which recorded both men as being remembered there on a 'Special Memorial'. I took this to mean that their bodies had been recovered but were then buried at sea (there is, for instance, a Gibraltar Memorial which serves the same purpose for those buried at sea there). I wonder if there has been a transcription error re 'graves' when the register was computerised?

Errol

[COL BRUGGY]

Errol,

There appear to be ten burial plots, 'Behind (the) Cross of Sacrifice' at Fajara War Cemetery, one of which is marked by a simple cross (See:Cemetery Photos). Six of these plots are occupied by named Allied personnel.

Maybe, Dennis could drop the CWGC a line.

Col.

[dennis_burke]

they'll send a hit squad for me if I do! I've a few over eager requests with them so I'll let them get answered first. Ought to be a simple request though.

In the cemetery photo there is I think a line of graves behind the cross and there are other personell listed as 'behind cross of sacrifice'.
http://www.cwgc.org/CWGCImgs/Fajara&#37;20Jan%2008%20(81).JPG

There is a 'cross' shaped headstone also if you note.

Going through the lists:
Behind the Cross:
Gr 1 ?
Gr 2 Harris
Gr 3 Birmingham
Gr 4 HARDMAN
Gr 5 ?
Gr 6 ALLBERRY
Gr 7 Richards
Gr 8 Cardy

I'd by a guess at the photos say there are 10 graves behind there.

[paulmcmillan]

Charles Leonard Palmer M.Inst.MM aged 47, was definitately lost on the Clare. He was living in Ankara Turkey at the time and was married to a Jessie Palmer. His death notice is in the Times Wednesday, Sep 23, 1942
and it says "Lost with Flying Boat Clare"

[Linzee]

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission website has changed the way the data base links work so the link in my original post of this thread no longer works.

Here is the 'latest' (as of 7th Sept 2009) link to find the Air Crashes at Sea Civilian War Dead list on CWGC website

http://www.cwgc.org/Search-Result.aspx?t=ce&q=fy%2bBFFAjByMAL06PRjrZ6t04ThzEaGQOdWhZmtd2IAHl9X JVQQPNHSuzqwlyJ5Ps9%2b3EchUG6L6NeBQB080L5Q%3d%3d#b 1

Regards
Linzee (and they call that progress?!)

[PFF]

Website on his last flight at http://www.mboss.force9.co.uk/twinwood/flight.htm

Also lost on Miller flight:
Flight officer John R.S. Morgan, service #T-190776, 35th Repair Squadron/35th Air Depot Grp
From Michigan

Lt.Col. Norman F. Baessell ,service# 0-905387, Hq Squadron, VIII Air Service Command.
From District of Columbia

ABMC records-tablets of the Missing Cambridge American Cemetery,Cambridge England

Confirmation of Airman Shaw's claim at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/639093.stm

In regard to previous message 31 the CWGC reports "Palmer, Charles Leonard" as a Captain "General List" on the Brookwood Memorial Panel 21 Column 3 {Does MM stand for Military Medal in message 31? Not listed on CWGC.}

[dennis_burke]

If you look at his CWGC record it says he is:
B. Sc. Mining Engineering (McGill University, Montreal).
A bachelor of Science in Mining Engineering, and then by googling:

M.Inst.MM = Member of the Institute of Mining and Metallurgy

The modern day equivalent: http://www.iom3.org I think

[dennis_burke]

Thanks Paul above!! I left this reply until I got the letter from the BA Archives which arrived today.

The list of passengers on the flight manifest is
Mr. M. Mabilotte <----- This must be the French man.
Mr. R V M Garry [Brookwood Mem.] <-- Brig. Richard V M Garry RA,
Mr. R H A Graham [Malta Mem.]
Mr. J F McGuire RCAF [Malta Mem.]
Mr. A E Turley [Malta Mem.]
Mr. J V Glansfield [Malta Mem.]
Mr. W. Kelly [Malta Mem.]
Mr. T A Dixon RNZAF [Malta Mem.]
Mr. J B Hardman [Fajara Cem.]
Mr. A C Allberry [Fajara Cem.]
Mr. C L Palmer <--------
Mr. R E Beard <--------
Mr. J A H Parker [Malta Mem.] <------- the BOAC list only gives A H as initials.

All are described as BRIT nationality.

BA Archives file is 1899.

[dennis_burke]

From Google book, I can only find one M. Mabilotte

Index to the correspondence of the Foreign Office for the year ..., Part 3
By Great Britain. Foreign Office

Mabilotte, M . Lieut-Col. Emergency certificate. T8192/ 1215/378.
Controleur de I'Administration de 1'Arme'e: proceeding to Syria to curb extravagance tendencies of Free French Military Authorities in Syria: Portuguese visa.

This might be the man on the aircraft?

[paulmcmillan]

Yes looks like your man.. I think Henk has looked for him before said he was 'Free French'... Which would kind of match with what you found


Le Journal officiel de la France libre‎ - Page 75


Directeur du Contr&#244;le: M. Mabilotte (Marcel), Attach&#233; en chef du Contr&#244;le de l'administration de l'Arm&#233;e:

[dennis_burke]

Reply from the CWGCC btween " and "

"Thank you for your email of 24th September 2009.

Please accept our apologies for the delay of our reply. This is due to the large volume of correspondence we are currently receiving.

Please find below details of the casualties from the Fajara War Cemetery as requested.

Graves 1, 9 and 10 are unidentified casualties from the Flying Boat “Claire” Date of death: 14/09/1942.

Going through the lists:"
Behind the Cross:
Gr 1 Unknown Clare Casualty
Gr 2 Harris
Gr 3 Birmingham
Gr 4 HARDMAN
Gr 5 Mabilotte*
Gr 6 ALLBERRY
Gr 7 Richards
Gr 8 Cardy
Gr 9 Unknown Clare Casualty
Gr 10 Unknown Clare Casualty

*Soldier MABILOTTE, MARCEL
Regiment: French Army
Date of Death: 14 September 1942
Commemoration: FAJARA WAR CEMETERY
Gambia
Behind Cross of Sacrifice Gr. 5.
This man is marked with a French Cross

[dennis_burke]

Following the update received from CWGC above, the only outstanding at this stage seem to be:


McLEAN , W Civilian * Civilian War Dead 20/09/41 Unknown

ANDERSON , H D Civilian * Civilian War Dead 21/09/41 Unknown
Anderson above is credited with a DFC by his CWGC entry.

DAVIDSON, CHARLES JOHN, C J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 16/12/41 45
His entry lists him as: of H.M. Dockyard, Malta. Husband of Winifred Gladys Davidson.

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello All,

Re: Charles John Davidson.

Tues 16/Wed 17 December, 1941
No.24 Squadron
Hudson III V9115

Crashed into sea on transport flight from Portreath to Gibraltar.

Crew:

81377 F/O (Pilot) John Herbert Morgan DAVIES DFC RAFVR +
36240 F/O (Pilot, acting Nav.) Douglas Veale GILMOUR MiD RAF +
520797 F/Sgt (W.Op) Robert Martin HANNAN RAFVR +
643876 LAC (F/Mech./E) William Graham SHEEAN RAFVR +
(All the above, commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial)

Passengers:

----- Lt. Patrick Lainson Field RN + (Portsmouth Naval Memorial)
----- Lt.Cdr. Edward CROGHAN RNVR + (Chatham Naval Memorial)
Civilian - Mr Charles John DAVIDSON + (An expense accounts officer employed by the Admiralty).

See: FYT1/162 & FYT3/550. With thanks to Errol Martyn, Henk Welting, Pel Temple and many others.

Col. (the compiler, only).

[jonny]

Lt. Patrick Lainson Field RN was my wife's great Uncle. He was a regular submariner (he commanded HMS Seawolf until Oct 1941) and was en-route to Gibralter to take up a Staff job as a Lt Cdr. The family understand that another aircraft saw the Hudson crash and this ties in with Colin Cummings' T.W.A. which states that the a/c strayed to close to a convoy and was possibly shot down by it.

[dennis_burke]

I found the following on a family tree in ancestry.com

William Maclean [as spelt] was known as Billy born Enys Road Camborne 19th August 1916 , son of William Arthur and Violet Winifed . His first education was at Basset Road School from there he went to the Grammar School .He regularly attended Camborne Wesley Sunday School and Chapel . On leaving School he started work at Daniel and Thomas Solicitors Camborne possibly alongside his father . He joined the RAF around 1932 and was unfortunately in the conflict of WW2 when it began in 1939 . He was reported missing in action, and this article is taken from The West Briton Newspaper 25th September 1941 Page 4 Section C. "Young Instructor Missing" Mr & Mrs W A Maclean of 34 Cadogan Road Camborne ,have received official notification that their only son Wireless Instructer William [Billy] Maclean is reported missing and believed killed aged 25.Mr Maclean joined the RAF nine years ago ,after being employed in the office of Messrs Daniel and Thomas Solicitors. He was due home on leave last week-end ,and the news came as a great shock to his parents and Sister .He was an old scholar of Wesley Sunday School and a good Hockey player with the Camborne Club at Roskear . His Father is the rating and valuating officer of Camborne -Redruth Urban Council ,and an officer of the Mount Edgecumbe Craft and Mark Master Masons Lodges at Camborne

The address matches that given on the CWGC entry.

[paulmcmillan]

Definately MACLEAN (not Mclean)

William MACLEAN born Redruth Cornwall in 1916.....

[dennis_burke]

The family spelled it MacClean, or something like that, the quote is from the family tree Paul. Both spellings are used by the tree owner.

[paulmcmillan]

CWGC spells in McClean!

[paulmcmillan]

CWGC spells it Mclean!

[dennis_burke]

I'll correct the family when I get in touch with them then. I'm simily quoting what I found on the persons family tree.

CWGC - W McLEAN
Birth Index - William MacLean
Family Tree - William 'Billy' McLean - refered to as MacLean in some text associated with him in the tree.
Fathers death registration is William A MacLean, 1953.

My point is that we have a face too the name now. Hopefully the family member has some geographical information that might help us.

[dennis_burke]

Very interesting, I've just noticed that there are now only 56 names left out of 60 on this Air Crashes at Sea list!

Thomas Allitt is removed, Ian H Douglas is gone, C L Palmer is removed and Leonard Vine is also reduced down to a single entry. I guess they were doing some tidying up.
They all had dupicate entries as service men and civilians so the civilian entry is now removed.

Returning to William Mclean, a relative of his emailed me this last night:

"My records tell me around 1932 he joined the RAF therefore he was not a civilian ,newspaper articles I have state he joined up about 9 years before he was killed . I have a clipping that says he was a wireless operater and instructor and it was reported he was missing presumed killed as a result of enemy action while over the Irish sea returning from a bombing raid ,I understand his body was not found and therefore feel the plane and everyone of the crew were also killed .There is a memorial plaque on the wall in Camborne Wesley Chapel and his name is added to the War memorial at Treslothan Church Troon which is close to where the family lived . I hope this helps you and your research and would appreciate any further details you might be able to give me to the background of the other crew members or indeed the type of plane they flew in ."

I've ask him to send on a few clarifications to me, so I'll see what that brings up.

Men on Runnymede for this date include:
001 BURKE IC 60072 142 SQDN 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

002 CARSTAIRS A 1056065 142 SQDN 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

003 FORSTER RM 1182409 - 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

004 LISTER TG 914307 142 SQDN 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

005 MACKINTOSH DJ 751713 142 SQDN 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

006 MCINTYRE RE 1325700 - 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

007 NAMIAS MHR 64318 226 SQDN 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

008 PILKINGTON LS 87640 111 SQDN 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

009 RUSSELL FI 755803 - 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

010 SQUIBB CJ 1283565 602 SQDN 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

011 TALBOT DHG 1307050 - 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

012 THOMAS CAF 748019 103 SQDN 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

013 TREVOR L 1065995 226 SQDN 20/09/1941 ROYAL AIR FORCE VOLUNTEER RESERVE

[Tim Rose]

Hi,

This old link from 2006, a thread between Henk Welting and Peter Davies, date 01/02/45:

http://www.rafcommands.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?forum=DCForumID6&mark=8472&az=next_topic&archive=yes

has another loss, York C.1 serial MW116 of 511 Sqn. Anybody who can confirm a connection with the civilian passengers?

Regards

Finn Buch

The above plane (York MW116 of 511 sqn.) was one of 2 which were in the service of Churchill, I believe that he used one (MW101) and his staff the other.
Both planes had their radios and other equioment serviced at Lyneham (by my grandfather) beforre flying to North Weald where they picked up their passengers and headed for Malta. MW116 crashed on Lampedusa with the loss of all on board. An investigation found that the 1154 direction finding equiment had failed causing the plane to not be able to find Malta. The investigation also found that this piece of equipment had been changed at North Weald - which I am sure my grandfather was very relieved to hear.

Tim

[paulmcmillan]

As far as we go on this we only have 1 outstanding query from this list:

ANDERSON , H D Civilian * Civilian War Dead 21/09/41 Unknown
Anderson above is credited with a DFC by his CWGC entry.




I think it is obvious by the loss information from family and other work by Dennis and Henk than William McLEAN was the '5th Man' lost on Anson N9740 No.6 AONS lost 20/09/41

And Col has identified CHARLES JOHN DAVIDSON ase being on Hudson III V9115 16/12/41

[paulmcmillan]

Just a guess I have a Henry Douglas ANDERSON (assume DFC correct)

with Royal Flying Corps

Lts. (on prob.): —
8th Nov. 1917.
Henry Douglas Anderson

[dennis_burke]

I have gone and asked the CWGC if they can tell me anythign at all about him and where the record comes from.

In the mean time, this RFC H D Anderson, I think I scratched him as an option before but looking again.

Assumign the same fellow, there is a Royal Aero Club membership for him on Ancestry.com which is for a Henry Douglas Anderson born 26 Jul 1899. He was RAC member from 13 March 1918 and address was Blackheath. Profession/Rank is 2nd Lt. RFC

There is a Henry Douglas Anderson born 1899 died 1969 in the death registeres for last quarter of 1969. His date of birth is given as 'about 1899' rather than an exact date. I wonder if this might be a late registration of some sort. I do see a few other people on that page without exact dates of birth. The registration district is Eastbourne.

I bought that mans service record from UK National Archives and no mention of a DFC.

[paulmcmillan]

Dennis

Thanks I think we can scrub him as well..

BTW the Robert Desmond Anderson Radio Operator in Ocean Bridge on Hudson AE545 on 21 September 1941 was from Benjamin River, New Brunswick, Canada

There were only 3 in crew


Flt. Lt. R . F. Leavitt DFC of Regina (RAF)
Sgt-Observer Elwood W McFall of Ottawa (RCAF)
and Anderson

I note Leavitt (a Canadian in RAF) had a DFC. do you thinki it is possible that Anderson's entry hase been confused with Leavitt combined with typo on initials. Date is same....

Leavitt got his DFC on 26th April 1941 flying a PR Mission in Spitfire from Wick to carry out a reconnaissance of Namsos and Trondheim. He was hit by AA but continued his mission successfully

Can anyone ID the SPitfire. Says 'only Type D' in Service, but it seems a bit to early for me..


http://airforce.jimmedia.ca/awards.php?search=1&keyword=&page=25&mem=&type=rafww2

[dennis_burke]

This is the reply from CWGC on Anderson:

Thank you for your email of 13 January 2011 about H.D. Anderson D.F.C listed in the civilian war dead roll of honour.

The only other unverified information we hold for him is that he died in an aircraft crash between Gander , Newfoundland , and Prestwick , Scotland

[paulmcmillan]

Dennis

I think we can assume a Typo in the original reportting of this case and

"H.D. Anderson D.F.C" is actually Robert Desmond Anderson, the radio operator of Benjamin River N.B -- new brunswick


and the DFC reference is wrong and actually references Leavitt's

on Hudson AE545 especially as Hudson AE545 was lost between Newfoundland and Preswick on this date. It's last radio communication was about half way... According to Ottawa Citizen on 22nd Sept 1941

[dennis_burke]

I'm coming around to that thinking now too. I'll send them a message to this effect, that we have no evidence other than them to check carefully their original messages. H D being R D , thats a possible. Also there is no other R D Anderson for this date.
I'll ask them to review all the data they received on the three men and thats I think as much as we can do.

[dennis_burke]

Not wishing to start a new thread as I'm not asking a question but I was browsing Ocean Bridge by Carl A Christie last night and came across the case of Hudson BW384,

Christie's entry gives the names as:
F/L John Henry Prentice RCAF
Chail. civ Pass
M. R. MacCaulay. civ Pass

I did a bit of searching around and found a scanned paper on Ancestry which gives more detail of the names of those involved, five in total.

TWO GIRLS KILLED IN FLIGHT WON BY LOAN EFFORT
HALIFAX, DEC 4 - (C.P.)-
Two girl war workers awarded a plane flight for Victory Loan work were killed Thursday with the three man crew of a bomber when it crashed into Halifax harbor a couple of minutes after taking off.

All five persons in the Lockheed Hudson plane met instant death when it nosed almost vertically into the water, with engines roaring, 35 feet off the top of a breakwater at the Royal Nova Scotia Yacht squadron.

The machine was owned by the Clark Ruse Aircraft Company, Limited, which operates an aircraft plant in the Halifax area. It had undergone tests and was to have been turned over to the R.C.A.F. shortly.

The girl passengers were emplyees of the plant, who had won awards in selling Victory Bonds to other emplyees. The pilot was Flt. Lt, J. H. Prentice of Toronto, chief test pilot for the company, on loan from the R.C.A.F. The others killed were: Miss Jean Curran and Miss Mary McQueen, both 22, of Dartmouth; T. Arthur Cahill, Chapeau, Que. test flight engineer at the Clark Ruse plant; Owen McCaulay, Sydney, N.S.

Only Prentice appaers on the CWGC database as aserving member of the RCAF. Just in case anyone is ever looking, wondering etc.

The Clark Ruse connection is confirmed by the CWGC index card scanned on Ancestry.com also.

[Bill Walker]

Thank you so much Dennis for filling in a gap for this aircraft. RCAF records had it sent to Clark Ruse after a crash in May 1942, and then written off in April 1943, with nothing much in between. One engine was salvaged, repaired, and returned to the RCAF.

[paulmcmillan]

Photo of R D Anderson is in the brillant Transat 1945 - Association of Trans-Oceanic Radio Officers document posted by Dennis Burke thanks for that!

Interesting that even though he is listed as killed on Active Service - the actual details are missing from the list provided. Which is a mine of information!

I find it interesting that aircraft serials are even listed in some details

[Ringo]

Just a guess I have a Henry Douglas ANDERSON (assume DFC correct)

with Royal Flying Corps

Lts. (on prob.): —
8th Nov. 1917.
Henry Douglas Anderson

He is my grandfather. Happy to provide more information if you contact me.

[dennis_burke]

Hello 'Ringo'

The reason your grand fathers name came up in this thread was we were trying to determine who the person named 'H D Anderson DFC2 listed as killed by the CWGC in 1942 was. We suggested

Henry Douglas ANDERSON ex RFC as a possible candidate.

You can help us by letting us know what do you know of your grandfather, did he live on past World War 2, or was he a wireless operator with RAF Ferry Command in 1942 and lost at sea with an aircraft?

Welcome to the board, try not use the message quote option as it just fills up the forum with repeated text, cheers

Dennis Burke
Dublin

[Ringo]

Hello Dennis

First of all my name is Edward Chilcott, had some trouble registering for this website and ended up using a nickname.

HDA is ex RFC but happily was not lost during WW2, but went on to live healthily until 1969. In fact he was not in active service in WW2 as he was too old to be called up and was employed in essential occupation.

He enrolled in RFC in 1918 and a year later he sailed on HMS Riviera (which is reported to have been adapted for use as the first aircraft carrier) to the Dardenelles to fight for the White Russians against the Bolsheviks. Returned to England via Malta and France in May 1919. In the RFC his Aviators Certificate was no 7660 and issued 13 March 1918.

In 1919 he joined a food provision merchants, John Loudon and Co, and remained with them until he retired in 1969, 50 years of service.

During WW2 he worked closely with the Ministry of Food and after the war he set up the importing of Danish bacon products and was also one of the first civilians to travel to Poland to establish links between Poland and the UK. In 1969 he was awarded the Order of the Polonia Restituta, a highly regarded award for a non Polish citizen.

His only active involvement in WW2 was in the Home Guard in London.

The information earlier in the thread re his DOB is correct and he died 27 November 1969. In 1918 he lived in Blackheath and died whilst living in Eastbourne.

My mother Angela, aged a youthful 79, recollects that other than his time in the Dardenelles he may have been in service in France. From information she obtained from National Archives (inc his service record) he seems to have had a few postings with various "wings" and squadrons and she also thinks he may have been involved in a crash, but escaped unscathed. We do not believe he was awarded DFC.

Hope this is of interest in your enquiries, we have a lot of photos, docs etc, let me know if you want any additional details.

Best Wishes

Edward Chilcott

[dennis_burke]

Hello Edward,

welcome to the board (don't mind me, I get all hepped up when people use only nicknames on forums.)

Glad to read that our Anderson was not your grand father.

As he was RFC, you can get his service record from this link:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/raf-officers-ww1.htm
for a few small pounds, we can help you with any confusing codes etc on it.

Our gentleman was R D Anderson then.

[dennis_burke]

Whilst browsing my copy of Ocean bridge this morning (as one does!) I noticed this aircraft loss,
Catalina 02915 which crashed coming out of Elizabeth City, North Carolina on 11 January 1945 (12th in the book). The appendix in Ocean Bridge lists teh crew as Peter Harry Nataros, and he is listed on CWGC website and four Russian airmen, who are not named.

So I popped into ancestry.com and they have death certs for North Carolina and the names of the Russians were:
Lieutenant Afanasie Borodin
H N Chikov
Captain W M Levin
Senior Lieutenant D M Medvedev

Deaths of all five are registered at Nixonton, Pasquotank County. All deaths dated 11th January)

All the Russians are listed as being 'removed' under the field 'buried, cremated, removed'. I wonder is there a Russian cemetery they were buried in somewhere?

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello,

The aircraft was a Naval Aircraft Factory PBN-1 Nomad (a NAF-built version of the Catalina).

Development of the changes (to the PBN Nomad), proceeded slowly and the first of the 156 aircraft ordered was not delivered until February 1943, with the last of the lot accepted in March 1945. Only 17 PBN Nomads were delivered to the US Navy, the remainder of this production batch had been ferried to Elizabeth City and delivered to Russian crews for delivery to the USSR.

See:
PBY Catalina in Action.
Scarborough,W.E Capt. USN. (Ret.).
Carrollton:Squadron Signal Pubs.,1983.
p.36.

Col.

[dennis_burke]

While browsing C Christies Ocean Bridge the other day, I noted that he had a note for the first aircraft in his Appendix B of lost aircraft, that there might be a third person on Hudson T9450.
Googled the pilots name and lots of 1941 newspaper stories are scanned and readable
The third person was a Bulgarian born pilot named, Christopher George, he was the son of a Bulgarian General, Kosla Gheorghieff, who was killed in 1925, His son George had moved to America and become a pilot.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1946&dat=19410225&id=n48uAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sZgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3206,4364318
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2194&dat=19410220&id=iRwvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0tsFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6543,3668262

Incase this helps anyone.

[Jean MacFarlane]

Hello Dennis: I was so glad to stumble upon your post of Jan 2013 about the crash of a Hudson bomber in Halifax Harbour, Dec 1942. The pilot, Harry Prentice was my grandfather (although I never got to meet him since I was born in 1960). Our family, for many years, had the Halifax Herald clipping recounting the accident, but it has somehow gone missing. I have also tried to find it on Ancestry but to no avail. I wonder if you might be able to pass on how you came upon the scanned article. My grandfather was a colourful character, by all accounts, and a very skilled pilot with more than 20 years flying experience in just about every aircraft out there at the time. I would greatly appreciate any help in locating your source. I am not hugely comfortable with searching on Ancestry and with filtering correctly for information. Thanks, Jean MacFarlane

[dennis_burke]

Hi Jean, sorry for missing your message, I will look again and try figure out where I would have found that.

[Jonathan Oppenheimer]

One of the passengers on Douglas DC-3 G-AGBB flying from Lisbon to London with Leslie Howard was an extraordinarily brave man called Wilfred Israel. Heir to pre-war Berlin's oldest department store, but with dual British & German nationality, from the moment Hitler came to power he did everything possible to save the lives and freedom of Jews with no thought for his own safety. He was a close friend of my father, who was one of the first he saved by warning him in 1933 that he was on a list for arrest, having fought back successfully when attacked in the street by Nazi thugs. He told my father he must leave Germany at once. How did he know? It appears he may already have been gathering information on Gestapo activity for a contact at the British Embassy. He was the prime mover behind the Kindertransport that saved over 10,000 Jewish children from Germany & Austria and also saved almost every one of his own firm's Jewish employees by paying them off with 2 years' pay and telling them to leave Germany at once. He himself was doubly at risk, being both Jewish and gay, but he remained in Berlin until 1939 and even after coming to London, returned to Germany once more to get a last trainload of Jewish children out. In 1943 he was sent to Lisbon to negotiate rescue of thousands of Jews who had fled to Spain and Portugal. The regimes in both countries had resisted German pressure to hand these people over but it seemed likely they would give in eventually. Wilfred Israel succeeded in negotiating visas for many and was returning to London on the ill-fated BOAC flight, which was shot down by 8 German fighters. It is at least possible that he was as big a target as Howard, and Lisbon certainly had no shortage of Nazi spies.

[dennis_burke]

I just got to the Ancestry.com scan of the three pages of the printed register for 'AIR CRASHES AT SEA" and blast me if they don;t all have a printed note about the location of their death!!!! Why did they not retain that information in the scanning process!

For William McLean for example it says in addition to the bit currently on the website:
"in aircraft crash in Irish sea"


For Peter Noel Loxley they printed on paper:
LOXLEY, PETER NOEL, age 39; First Secretary, Foreign Office. Son of Mrs. Loxley, and of the late Capt. Arthur Noel Loxley, R.N.; husband of Elizabeth Lavender Loxley, of the Mill House, Longparish, Andover, Hampshire. Member of the staff of the British Delegation to the Crimea Conference. killed in a flying accident on the way to the Crimea, 1 February 1945

Whereas the website goes with:
Rank:Civilian
Date of Death:01/02/1945
Age:39
Regiment/Service:Civilian War Dead British Delegation to the Crimea Conference.
Reporting Authority:AIR CRASHES AT SEA
Additional Information:First Secretary, Foreign Office. Son of Mrs. Loxley, and of the late Capt. Arthur Noel Loxley, R.N.; husband of Elizabeth Lavender Loxley, of the Mill House, Longparish, Andover, Hampshire. Member of the staff of the British Delegation to the Crimea Conference. Buried in Imtarfa Cemetery, Malta



Buried in Imtarfa Cemetery, Malta.

[paulmcmillan]

Dennis

Interesting

Did we get all the others right ?

Including Anderson ??

or is there any new names on printed list?

regards

Paul

[dennis_burke]

When I get a chance I will double check, I ran out of time the other evening, I have the pages downloaded and OCR'd etc.

Anderson was published originally with no DFC award, so I take it still that the online version was an error.

"ANDERSON, H. D. 21 September I941, in aircraft crash between Gander, Newfoundland, and Prestwick, Scotland."

[paulmcmillan]

Dennis

Thanks

Paul

[dennis_burke]

Actually, as of today the register pages are scanned on CWGC website.

[paulmcmillan]

Dennis

I looked for ANDERSON, H. D

his register details not scanned where did you find the others?

thanks

Paul

[dennis_burke]

Blast it! Ok so these Civilian register pages are not actually scanned. i just expected they would be.

[paulmcmillan]

Ancestry has for Nevill VINTCENT OBE,DFC + (Civilian War Dead)

Death: 29 Jan 1942 - He was a General Manager Tata Air Lined Ltd
Aircraft crashed into sea off coast of Spain en route Portreath to Gibraltar