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Henk Welting
3rd March 2010, 11:06
What were the places of death registration for:

A - Killed on active service:
W/Cdr Arthur W.M. FINNY - 32007, and
LAC George H. PALLEN - 1222656.

B - Died on active service:
LAC Clifford T. JONES - 1452329 - age 38 - 124 Sqn (Martlesham Heath, Suffolk).

C - Not found in Flight archives:
Cpl Reginald W. TEBBUTT - 17481 - age 46.

D - Also looking for GRO-listing:
AC1 Patrick J. HENEGAN - 1268817 - Beja War Cem., Algeria - DOAS.
F/O Douglas HUNTER - 122133 - Malta Memorial Panel 6 Column 2 - Missing believed killed in Action.

E - Proposed aircraft losses:
Battle I - L5140 - 1472 Flt - crashed in forced landing 1 mile E of Streatlam Park, 3 miles NE of Barnard Castle, Co. Durham.
Beaufighter I - T4754 - 2 (C)OTU - crashed on approach 400 yards N of Catfoss.
Magister I - R1919 - 308 Sqn - crashed in forced landing 2 miles NE of Ormesby, Norfolk.
Master III - W8864 - 5 (P)AFU - abandoned Scotland Nursery, Butterley, Derbyshire.
Proctor III - R7564 - 4 RS - crashed in forced landing Peg's Farm, Wellington Heath, 2 miles N of Ledbury, Hereford.
Tiger Moth II - T7271 - 198 Sqn - crashed on take-off Digby.
Tiger Moth II - N9333 - 3 EFTS - spun into ground 1 mile W of Challow, Berkshire.
Tiger Moth II - N6724 - 29 EFTS - abandoned Ravensbrook Farm, Minety, near Cricklade, Wiltshire.
Defiant I - T4051 - 276 Sqn - abandoned Stafford Farm, West Stafford, Dorset.
Tiger Moth - BB816 (ex. G-ADJD) - 28 EFTS - collided with Tiger Moth R5101 and crashed on aqueduct Watling Street near Brewood, Stafford (already as a casualty on R5101: 2/Lt A. AKSU (Turkish Air Force), buried Brookwood Mil. Cem., Woking).
Tomahawk II.A - AH905 - 430 Sqn - crashed in forced landing Bensfield, Surrey.
Whitley VII - LA798 - 8 FPP - crashed on approach Sydenham Ave, Hollywood Road, Belfast.

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

Henk Welting
3rd March 2010, 11:24
On Tiger Moth BB816 already as a casualty LAC (Pilot u/t) S.A. DE'ATH - 1332723.

Henk.

COL BRUGGY
3rd March 2010, 11:49
Henk,

Re: Defiant I - T4051 - 276 Sqn.

No 276 squadron lost a Defiant on 22 January (1943), due to the weather rather than enemy action. Flight Sergeant K Hall and Flight Sergeant W Elder took off in T4051 at 1:55 p.m, to search for three men known to be in the water - without a dinghy. So despite the weather, both knew they had to find them and drop a dinghy before the three men died of cold. Bill Elder recalls:

"We searched for 50 minutes off the south coast and finally sighted the three aircrew in Mae Wests. We dropped them a large dinghy but by now the weather was deteriorating rapidly so we had to head back.

On nearing our home base, cloud came down to the 200 feet level, and as we were also running short of fuel my pilot ordered me to bale out when we were around 1,500 feet. I landed on the white chalk of Cerne Abbas Giant, north of Dorchester".

Flight Sergeant Hall also baled out successfully.

See:
Another Kind Of Courage:Stories of the UK-based Walrus Air-Sea Rescue Squadrons.
Franks,Norman.
Sparkford:P.S.L.,1994.
p.58

Col.

Dick
3rd March 2010, 13:09
Hi Henk
Finny, 33 registered at West Cheshire
Pallen,36, registered at Lewes,Sussex
Jones,38, registered at Epping,Essex
Tebbutt,46,registered at Cambridge
Regards
Dick

Rich Allenby
3rd March 2010, 15:07
Henk, regarding Battle L5140.

1472 Flt ORB states F/O Lee crashed in Battle L5140 due to engine failure. The aircraft was a complete write off, but the pilot was uninjured. The accident occurred near Barnard Castle in the afternoon, F/O Lee having returned from Hendon in the Battle in the morning.

Beaufighter T4754 I have nothing as yet, other than force landed 400yds short on north side on approach to land at Catfoss.


regards Rich

Henk Welting
3rd March 2010, 16:11
Thanks Col, Dick & Rich for your excellent help.
Best regards,
Henk.

alclark
3rd March 2010, 16:16
W8864 crashed near Beeston in Cheshire, the crew being Sgt G. L. Johnson (1233516) and Wing Commander Finny. Johnson abandoned the aircraft on seeing W/Cdr Finny preparing to vacate the aircraft but Finny was unsuccessful. He was found close to the crash site, his chute has partially opened but was extensively damaged.

The purpose of the flight was re-categorisation of Sgt Johnson, one of the 5 (P)AFU instructors.

Henk Welting
3rd March 2010, 16:44
Thanks Al for interesting info on Master W8864 and its crew.
Regards,
Henk.

Dick
3rd March 2010, 21:06
Hi Henk
It looks as though the crash site for W8864 needs revision.Al places it at Beeston and Finny as died at the crash site.That explains his registration in W Cheshire,you had it as Butterley in Derbyshire which is too far east for the registration
Regards
Dick

alclark
4th March 2010, 01:34
Revision is one way of putting it, I've got a copy of the 1180 which gives a map reference that comes out close to the former railway station at Beeston and the ORB states the crash occurred "on the outskirts of Beeston" (the railway more or less marks the boundary between Beeston and Tarporley). I don't know who suggested the crash occurred in Derbyshire but they want some good questions asking of their research skills. I can get the map reference to within 2km of the location at Butterley by changing the first number in the map reference from 0 to 8 (moving it 80km eastwards).

This is a problem that has surfaced in Air Britain publications more recently, original editions were produced from AHB and NA references but more recently speculated locations from less reliable sources and incorrect serial numbers attributed to real crashes have been appearing as fact in these well respected and used series.

Buz
4th March 2010, 11:58
Henk

Tomahawk AH905

Pilot took off from Dunsfold on first solo in type. During the flight the aircraft suffered complete engine failure and pilot force landed at Bensfield in Surrey. Aircraft caught fire after the landing and was burnt out.

Pilot PltOff J.A.Lowndes J.12893

Buz

davew
4th March 2010, 14:02
Gents,

No doubt that it was I that supplied the incorrect location for W8864, reached by translation of the Cassini reference which was quoted to me as VX817807. This is now obviously a misreading by the researcher of VX017807 on the 1180 . At the time I did not have the benefit of knowing the name of the fatality and so it wa not possible for me to cross check with the death registers. Nor does the original entry in the W File give a location as a starting point. but at at least the discussion generated here will allow a correction. I hope there will be many more!



I am sure that AB will be more than happy to accept corrections to the lists from those whose research has been more focussed than the inevitable broad brush listings in ABS. It is remarkable that the job was ever attempted.

Regards

DaveW

Henk Welting
4th March 2010, 15:33
Gents,
Info on Master W8864 "Abandoned Scotland Nursery, Butterley, Derbyshire" came from Air Britain's Aeromilitaria Autumn 2008, Article: Crash Sites in the United Kingdom during Word War 2". In Air Britain's W1000-Z9999 is listed "Failed to recover from a spin and abandoned" (no further location).

Buz,
Thanks for info on Tomahawk AH905.

Regards,
Henk.

Henk Welting
4th March 2010, 15:55
Visitors of this thread probably missed a part of my question in message # 1:

Looking for GRO-listing of:

AC1 Patrick J. HENEGAN - 1268817 - buried Beja War Cem., Algeria - DOAS.
F/O Douglas HUNTER - 122133 - Malta Mem. Panel 6 Column 2, Missing believed killed in action.

Regards,
Henk.

malcolm_raf
4th March 2010, 18:51
Hi Henk

Henegan - 326 Wing
Hunter - RAF North Front (Gibraltar)

Malcolm

Henk Welting
5th March 2010, 16:39
Thanks Malcolm; this info probably may help to research loss HUNTER.
Regards,
Henk.

Ross_McNeill
5th March 2010, 17:58
Hi Henk,

Hunter was on Wellington HX690

Regards
Ross

Henk Welting
6th March 2010, 14:34
Thanks Ross. HX690 was in my files however HUNTER missing. Other names of crew:
F/Os T.H. GORDON-GLASSFORD - MiD, D. HUSTLER and B.W. CARMICHAEL; P/Os G.E. HARVEY and H.E. BEALE; Sgt J.H. BROWN.
rEGARDS,
hENK.

COL BRUGGY
6th March 2010, 15:29
Henk,

Re: F/O Douglas HUNTER - 122133.

I have the following crew for No.179 Squadron, Wellington VIII HX690:

(Alpha order)

AUS403021 P/O (W.Op./Air Gnr.) Herbert Eldon BEALE MiD RAAF +
1107562 Sgt John Henry BROWN RAFVR +
CAN J/9641 F/O Brian Withers CARMICHAEL RCAF +
AUS402658 F/O Terence Harry GORDON-GLASSFORD MiD RAAF +
144013 P/O George Edward HARVEY RAFVR +
121472 F/O John Saynor HUSTLER MiD RAFVR +

BEALE - Killed in Action - Buried Bone War Cemetery, Annaba VII.F.18
Others - Missing - Commemorated on the Malta Memorial

Flight April 8, 1943. pp.377-8 Cas. Comm. No.218

HUNTER is not mentioned in the above Flight listing, nor is he mentioned in the Item Notes of BEALE or GORDON-GLASSFORD.

What happened to HUNTER?

Col.

Henk Welting
6th March 2010, 15:58
Good question Col...., let's go back to Ross for further info on HUNTER.
Regards,
Henk.

COL BRUGGY
18th March 2010, 05:55
Henk,

Through the good graces of Adrian Read, I can now impart the following on the loss of No.179 Sqn Wellington VIII HX690:

21/22-1-1943
No.179 Sqn
Wellington VIII HX690 (Leigh-Light equipped).

Took off from Gibraltar 22:00-22:20 (files unclear on this point), on 21-1-1943 for a night anti-submarine patrol over the Mediterranean. HX690 was carrying 4 depth charges, IFF and ASV. Aircraft was under observation for 66 miles from take-off. No further sight or radio transmissions from aircraft, which failed to return. Presumed shot down when attacking a U-boat.

Crew:

AUS402658 F/O (Capt.) Terence Harry GORDON-GLASSFORD RAAF +
1377534 Sgt (2nd Pilot) George Edward HARVEY RAFVR +
121472 F/O (Nav.) John Saynor HUSTLER RAFVR +
1107562 Sgt (W.Op./Air Gnr.) John Henry BROWN RAFVR +
CAN J/9641 F/O (W.Op./Air Gnr.) Brian Withers CARMICHAEL RCAF +
AUS403021 P/O (W.Op./Air Gnr.) Herbert Eldon BEALE RAAF + (also mentioned as 'Obs.').

Beale's body was washed ashore 3 weeks later, on 12 February 1943, at Port des Ruines Saintes, 25km east of Philippville, Algeria. His body was recovered by No.254 Squadron. (Beale was initially buried in Philippville Cemetery, later re-interred in Bone War cemetery).

Gordon-Glassford, Beale and Hustler were later MiD.

Adrian could find no mention of 122133 F/O Douglas HUNTER RAF, in the files of Beale, or Gordon-Glassford.

So the question of what happened to F/O Hunter, is still very much up in the air!

I would like to thank Adrian Read for his hard work on this one.

Col.

Henk Welting
18th March 2010, 14:27
My thanks to you Col and to Adrian Read as well. Excellent research.
Best regards,
Henk.

Lyffe
18th March 2010, 16:06
Just to add to Col's last message, if Beale's body was washed ashore near Philippville (southeast of Bone) this would suggest the Wellington had probably reached the eastern extremity of its sortie. I've been checking on the U-boat net website and have been unable to find any U-boats in this part of the Mediterranean on 21/22 Jan 1943. There were a couple about half-way between Bone and Gibraltar, but neither logged any action against an aircraft.

I've floated a thread on the forum just in case I've missed something but at the moment I'd be inclined to suggest the loss had nothing to do with enemy action.

Brian

Lyffe
18th March 2010, 21:01
I did miss something! I've been advised on U-boat net that HX690 was almost certainly the aircraft destroyed by the Italian submarine Argento. The position given is 38deg 07 min N 06 deg 38 min E, the incident being timed at 2258 on 21 Jan. (Not sure about the time datum.

Attempting to obtain further details.

Brian

Lyffe
19th March 2010, 16:16
Col/Henk

Thanks to Platon Alexiades on U-boat.net I can complete the story of the loss of HX690.

As posted previously the Wellington was shot down whilst attacking the Italian submarine Argento.

Platon writes:

"The ARGENTO identified the attacking bomber as of the Vickers Wellington type. It made three strafing runs (described as firing violently with its machine-guns) on the submarine but did not drop any bomb. ARGENTO replied with her own machine-guns claiming hits. On the the third it suddenly stopped firing and was seen to lose rapidly altitude, the submarine did not see it crashing but dived to forestall another attack. Minor correction to the position previously quoted: it should be 3807' N, 0638' E."

This rather suggests the pilot was hit during HX690's third attack, causing him to lose control of the aircraft.

Brian

Henk Welting
19th March 2010, 16:37
Thanks Brian; will update my file.
Regards,
Henk.

Lyffe
19th March 2010, 19:24
Sorry Henk/Col,

I have to correct my earlier message. It now turns out that the Argento was attacked twice during the night of 21/22 January 1943; the first time was at 2218 hours (not 2258) on the 21st by an aircraft as described in my previous post. However, I confused Platon by quoting the aircraft serial number of HX690. He didn't link this with the second attack nearly 6 hours later when the submarine claims to have destroyed U/179, the confusion arising partly because the aircraft type wasn't quoted in the submarine's report. For this second attack he writes:

"The ARGENTO was attacked again by another bomber at 0400/22 January and this was claimed definitely shot down and most likely was U/179, position was 3758' N, 0651' E.. It could not have been the same aircraft as the one at 2218 (I do not think the aircraft could have lasted 7 or more hours in the air so far from its base). Four bombs were dropped by this aircraft and straddled ARGENTO."

The U/179 is clearly the 179 Sqn Wellington, which leaves a bit of a riddle - was the first attack also by U/179 and broken off because of damage caused by the submarine's defences, or was it a Wellington from another squadron? I suppose there are two questions

1.Would two aircraft have been flying an anti-submarine patrol in the same area?

2. How long would such a patrol from Gibraltar remain airborne.

The lack of any W/T contact with HX690 after t/o might suggest the radio was rendered u/s during the first attack.

Apologies again for the mis-information.

Brian

dennis_burke
12th April 2012, 16:08
Cpl. Tebbutt is DOAS in April 1st fligth magazine, scanned as Cpl. R. W. Tebbult

Ross_McNeill
6th June 2012, 14:33
Hi Henk,

F1180 for Spitfire BR639 and BR181 has 3rd Party fatality noted so link to

LAC Clifford T. JONES - 1452329 - age 38 - 124 Sqn but at North Weald.

Regards
Ross

Ross_McNeill
6th June 2012, 14:37
Got to the bottom of my confusion with Hunter.

F1180 confirms killed as pilot of Spitfire EN121.

Regards
Ross

Henk Welting
6th June 2012, 15:35
Thanks Ross.......and this after 29 entries on this thread but finally could delete his name from 'the' list.
Regards,
Henk.

jonheyworth
9th February 2021, 10:37
William Entwistle 1351866, attached to number 40 SP, died from shrapnel wounds sustained in an air raid

jonheyworth
18th February 2021, 14:53
Ronald William Purdy 1716082, , medically discharged at the time of his death, died in the Surrey county hospital, Carsholton of a combination of acute miliary tuberculosis and pulmonary tuberculosis. I have located his grave in the Bandon Hill cemetery Sutton and am working towards a CWCG submission

jonheyworth
7th October 2021, 16:58
Patrick Joseph Henegan 1268817 , was admitted dangerously ill to Number 31 general hospital on 20 January where he died at 00:42 hours of acute encephalitis

jonheyworth
27th November 2021, 00:40
John Morgan Thomas 909811 and

William Entwistle 1351866 both attached to Number 40 ASP ,

Were driving in a lorry in convoy to ma new unit site North of the main road 6 Miles East of Temet airfield. The area was m8ned but S.A. Engineers had cleared safe lanes. 60 vehicles had
Passed when their lorry ran a little to the side of the safe lane and sprung an S mine. Thomas was killed and Entwistle and twomotehrs were seriously wounded. Removed to a NZ CCS , Entwistle died there of his shrapnel wounds

The previous entry for Entwistle mentions and air raid which the initial report but This is the correct version

jonheyworth
8th April 2022, 22:01
James George Walter 339389 , attached to 31 Wireless Unit , was killed on duty at Map Ref Matruh 723306, in an accidental grenade explosion

jonheyworth
14th July 2022, 01:26
Leslie Alfred Frederick Newman 48142 , died at 06:30 Hours in Number 63 General hospital, of diphtheria

jonheyworth
14th November 2022, 20:23
Reginald William Tebbutt 17481 , attached to 21 Works Flight, died in Addenbrookes EMS hospital, Cambridge, of a parotic abscess