430327 - Unaccounted airwoman and airmen - 27-3-1943

[Henk Welting]

What were the places of death registration for:

A - Died of wounds or injuries received on active service:
Sgt (Pilot) Gordon A. CULLENER - 1383311.

B - Not found in Flight Global:
AC2 Vivian J. JONES - 1039860 - age 22.

C - Died on active service:
ACW2 Margaret C. LEE - 2118953;
AC2 Ronald E. OWEN - 1697201, and
LAC William A. WHITE - 1325907 - age 28.

D - Killed on active service:
Sgt (Pilot) Robert H.M. MACFADZEAN - 1349862 (from USA);
Sgt (Pilot) Arthur RICHARDS - 1316805, and
F/O (Pilot) Ronald F. THAIN - 124843.

E - Proposed aircraft losses:
Blenheim I - L1454 - 42 OTU - flew into ground Lavington Folly, Wexland Hanging, 3 miles WSW of Netheravon.
Blenheim IV - Z5869 - 12 (P)AFU - dived into ground Spittlegate.
Defiant I - N3459 - 10 AGS - crashed in forced landing Bigger Bank, Walney Island.
Hurricane I - W9121 - 59 OTU - undershot landing at night ½ mile SE of Brunton.
Hurricane I - W9184 - 59 OTU - crashed on take-off at night Chathill, Northumberland.
Master I - N7873 - 57 OTU - crashed on approach Eshott.
Master I - T8436 - 7 (P)AFU - crashed in forced landing near Coates, Cambridgeshire.
Spitfire II.A - P7896 - 61 OTU - crashed on landing Rednal.
Oxford I - EB777 - 6 (P)AFU - crashed on approach 800 yards N of Little Rissington.
Oxford I - MP445 - 6 (P)AFU - crashed on overshoot ½ mile N of Windrush.

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

[alclark]

42 OTU recorded Thain and Sgt Cyril Walter Henry Rawlings as the crew of L1454

March 27th 1943, “Blenheim IV .1454 crashed at Netheravon. The pilot F/O R.F. Thain and Sgt Rawlings, navigator, died from injuries received on 28.3.43.

N3459 was recorded as non-fatal.

[Dick]

Hi Henk
Cullener,22, registered at Newcastle on Tyne,Northumberland
Jones,22, registered at Ruthin, Denbighshire
Owen,27, registered at Leicester
White,28, reistered at Ipswich, Suffolk
Richards,21, registered at Grantham and W Kesteven, Lincolnshire
MacFadzean didn't come up but I could find him on CWGC either
Margaret Lee wasn't on the register and was buried at home in Edinburgh and may have died there,CWGC has her as only 17
Regards
Dick

[davew]

Henk

Northumberland Aviation Diary puts Macfadzean on Hurricane W9184 at Chathill, Northumberland; Culliner on Hurricane W9121 at Brunton. No casualty noted for the Master N7873 at Eshott.

regards

DaveW

[Theletterwriter]

Henk

ACW2 Margaret Clark LEE - 2118953 : aged 18 ; registered at Athelstaneford, East Lothian, Scotland. She would appear to have been serving at RAF East Fortune, Drum, East Lothian.

Douglas

[Henk Welting]

Again overrunned with worthwhile info; thanks all for your help.
Henk.

[Henk Welting]

Dick,
Sgt (Pilot) Arthur RICHARDS - 1316805 - registered Grantham & W.Kesteven, Lincolnshire. Is it possible that he was on Blenheim IV - Z5869 of 12 (P)AFU, dived into ground near Spittlegate ?
Regards,
Henk.

[alclark]

Spittlegate was in that area so it is a possibility.

[COL BRUGGY]

Henk,

Re: Blenheim IV Z5869.

27-3-1943
12 (P)AFU
Blenheim IV Z5869

Dived into ground at Spittlegate, Grantham (Lincs.), cause unknown, struck L8657 (see below).

Sgt Richards (solo pilot) - Killed.

27-3-1943
12 (P)AFU
Blenheim I L8657

Destroyed by fire when Z5869 (see above), dived into ground at Spittlegate.

See: The Bristol Blenheim/Warner (1st ed.) p.613

Check 2nd ed. for update.

Col.

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Col. Do believe Dick has 2nd ed. and for sure will react to this message.
Regards,
Henk.

[Dick]

Warner 2nd edition confirms Col's info on Z5869.It struck L8657 but Warner gives no casualties for that a/c
Dick

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Dick for confirmation.
Sunny regards from the continent,
Henk.

[malcolm_raf]

Henk

I have Owen as being registered in Bangor, Wales not Leicester

Malcolm

[Henk Welting]

Thanks again Malcolm.
Henk.

[paulmcmillan]

This thread

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=115248

Mixes stuff up a bit

Forms 78 & 1180 MACFADZEAN was flying W9179 - which is a new serial

"so Northumberland Aviation Diary puts Macfadzean on Hurricane W9184 at Chathill, Northumberland; Culliner on Hurricane W9121 "

[phill jones]

Henk ,Spitfire 2A , P7896 61 OTU , it seems this one a non fatal crash ,
Rednal ,13.45 Hrs ,cat B ,Training ,tyre Burst on landing,left runway,and overturned , SGT WJ BOOTS 1288212
BW Phill Jones

[phill jones]

Master ,N7873 , 57 OTU , Undershot landing ,tried to stretch glide and stalled , Sgt PHT CLAY 1331525.

a non fatal accident

rgs phill jones

[paulmcmillan]

Stuck this on Flypast forum - I am hoping someone her has 59 OTU ORB!

Interesting According to Air Britain Serials W9179 dived into sea on this date. This is the aircraft MACFADZEAN was on.

re: "Records I have list two Hurricanes of 59OTU lost that day (W9121 & W9184) "

These two aircraft in Northumberland Aviation Diary and Air Britain Aeromilitaria Summer 2009 as crashing on this day with 59 OTU

Air Britain has

27.03.43 Hurricane I W9121 59 OTU 1/2 mile SE of Brunton Cause: Undershot Landing at Night
27.03.43 Hurricane I W9184 59 OTU Chathill Northumberland Cause: Crashed on Take off at Night

I could not find MACFADZEAN on the UK Death Registers but it looks like a body was recovered because he is buried at KIRKNEWTON (ST. GREGORY) CHURCHYARD

Northumberland Aviation Diary puts Sgt (Pilot) Gordon A. CULLENER - 1383311(who died of wounds or injuries received on active service) on Hurricane W9121 at Brunton. But same source had Sgt Robert H.M. MACFADZEAN on W9184 at Chathill, Northumberland which as we now know is incorrect

Of course no one may have been killed on W9184. The 59 OTU ORB may solve this mystery but I do not have it!

Thanks

paul

[phill jones]

The 59 OTU ORB , mentions the loss of Macfadzean and Cullener on the said date , but no mention of serial Numbers it just states both these sgt's killed in flying accident , that is it

rgs phill jones

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Paul & Phill.
What will be wise ? MACFADZEAN on W9179 (at sea, recovered later and therefore not for this day in a death register) and CULLENER on W9121. No fatality on W9184.
Regards,
Henk.

[paulmcmillan]

Thanks Paul & Phill.
What will be wise ? MACFADZEAN on W9179 (at sea, recovered later and therefore not for this day in a death register) and CULLENER on W9121. No fatality on W9184.
Regards,
Henk.

Yes I think that is the general consensus without more evidence at present

Update: From Flypast Forum

"Form 1180 confirms that W9179 crashed into the sea at 04:43 with MACFADZEAN as pilot."

[wwrsimon]

Hello

ACW2 Margaret C. LEE - 2118953 - the Statutory Deaths Register on the Scotland's People website records that she died at about 1.30 p.m. at East Fortune Railway Station, due to multiple injuries. No details of the circumstances recorded.

Regards

Simon

[jonheyworth]

UPGRADE to Margaret Clark Lee 2118953, A Clerk GD attached to RAF East Fortune, she died of multiple injuries sustained when she fell alighting from a train at East Fortune railway station

[jonheyworth]

Vivian John Jones, 1039860 a medically discharged Air Force pensioner, died in the North Wales sanatorium of pulmonary tuberculosis

[jonheyworth]

Ronald Edward Owen 1697201, attached to Number 3 AGS was seriously injured in an accident when he was run over by a tractor at RAF Mona, dying of shock and multiple injuries in the Caernarfon and Anglesey Infirmary

[jonheyworth]

William Apinall White 1325907 , was killed at New Cut West , Ipswich when he was found asphyxiated in mud with an injury to his head. His death was ruled as accidental and misadventure

[jonheyworth]

Joseph Thomas Dinnage 1176545 , attached to 128 MU , was admitted seriously ill to Number 19 General hospital on 26 March , where he died of pnenumonia and typhus fever