400725 - Unaccounted airmen - 25-7-1940

[Henk Welting]

What caused the death of:

Sgt (Pilot) Gerald J.L. JOHNSON - 740287 - killed on active service (Flight Global), buried Leicester (Gilroes) Cem. (UK2166), and

Sgt (Pilot) William H. TIBBLES - 754133 - killed on active service (Flight Global), buried Southchurch (Holy Trinity) Churchyard, Southend-on-Sea, Essex (UK3611).

Proposed aircraft losses for this day:

Anson I - L7928 - 6 FTS - crashed in forced landing Grendon Underwood, Buckinghamshire;
Beaufort I - N1088 - 12 MU - crashed in forced landing 2 miles S of Dumfries (already as a casualty P/O [Pilot] Robert A.D. SMITH - 81045);
Botha I - L6124 - 1 (C)OTU - crashed in forced landing Threapland Moss, Aspatria, Cumberland;
Harvard I - P5901 - 15 FTS - crashed on take-off at night 1½ mile N of Windrush;
Hurricane I - L1791 - 7 OTU - crashed in forced landing Holt, Denbighshire;
Master I - N7690 - 14 FTS - crashed on take-off at night Cranfield, Bedfordshire (already as a casualty Sgt [Pilot] George H. BELL - 748794);
Oxford II - N4757 - 14 FTS - flew into ground Chipperfield, Hertfordshire.

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

[Dick]

Hi Henk
There a death of a Gerald J L Johnson age 23, registered at Ampthill which is close to Cranfield. He could have been in N7690
Regards
Dick

[Dick]

Hi Henk
There is a death of a William H Tibbles age26 registered at Cirencester. There are several places called Windrush around England but one of them is about 10 Kms N E of Cirencester and in June '40 part of 15 FTS was at South Cerney which is only 4 kms from Cirencester.
Regards
Dick

[paulmcmillan]

Hi Henk
There a death of a Gerald J L Johnson age 23, registered at Ampthill which is close to Cranfield. He could have been in N7690
Regards
Dick

Dick

Is (already as a casualty Sgt [Pilot] George H. BELL - 748794); Registered at same location!

Paul

[Dick]

Hi Henk and Paul
There is a George H Bell age 19 whose death is registered at Cirencester, which might put him with Tibbles.
Regards
Dick

[paulmcmillan]

Dick

So it looks like Bell and Tibbles were on same aircraft...

Thanks

[Henk Welting]

What's your idea about BELL, JOHNSON, TIBBLES ?

Regards,
Henk.

[Doug Cuthbertson]

Henk,
From 15 FTS ORB, 25/7/40. "Harvard N5901 crashed on take off from Windrush, pilot Sgt Tibbles killed." No other casualties recorded. As N5901 was a Gladiator, the ORB compiler made a small error.
Windrush was a small satellite airfield of 15 FTS, 3 miles west of Burford, Oxfordshire, but in the county of Gloucestershire.
Doug.

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Doug. Tibbles being only casualty on P5901, Sgt Johnson may have been on N7690 together with Bell.
Best regards,
Henk.

[paulmcmillan]

Guys

I have a real problem with George H Bell age 19 whose death is registered at Cirencester (Gloustershire) and William H Tibbles age 26 also registered at Cirencester. And as we have a confirmation of Tibbles being on Harvard N5901 (from 15 ORB) - But looking like a solo

Whereas Gerald J L Johnson age 23, registered at Ampthill which is close to Cranfield but in Bedfordshire being in Master N7690

I cannot see how Johnson and Bell could be in the same aircraft and if anything Tibbles must have been with Bell unless Bell died in another incident

Paul

[Henk Welting]

Paul,
Have same problems; therefore asked DaveW about his ideas. Take at least for grant that Tibbles was on Harvard P5901.
Regards,
Henk.

[paulmcmillan]

BTW One other point

Sgt (Pilot) Gerald J.L. JOHNSON - Typo Serial is 742087 NOT 740287

740287 Is Sgt J F Palmer Killed 29/05/1940


BTW Bell was also Killed on Active Service and is in the same casualty list as Tibbles and Johnson

[davew]

Gents

CWGC has Bell died on 26th July, Tibbles on 25th


The death register for Cirencester has Bell on page 984 Tibbles on Page 1018 in the same qtr. (I understand that there are four entries to a page). This suggests to me that the death of Bell was reported to the registrar some time before that of Tibbles even though he was killed a day later! I don't know how many deaths would be registered in Cirencester in two days but surely not as many as 34 days x 4 = 136 or so enties. I'm puzzled now unless there is an error in the CWGC dates which is not unknown.

DaveW

[Henk Welting]

Dave,
I believe that BELL, mentioned page 984 of the Cirencester Register, may have been P/O Eric W. BELL - 77775 of 263 Sqn who was killed on Blenheim L1105 of 5 OTU (Conversion training) at Frampton Mansell 23rd July 1940.
Please advise.
Regards,
Henk.

[davew]

Henk,

That's correct. I really don't know where I got 26th from, perhaps these glasses!

regards

Davew

[Henk Welting]

Dave,
What means that also George H. BELL - 748794 must be in same Cirencester death register, date of death 26th July 1940.
Any info in the register on crash location ?

Regards,
Henk.

[davew]

Henk

George H Bell 748794 died 26/7/40 registered at 6a 984.

Eric W Bell 77775 died 23/7/40 also registered at 6a 984
Pilot of L1105.

William Tibbles 754133 died 25.7.40 registered at 6a 1018
Harvard P5901?

So the two Bells were registered at the same time (and from the same source?) although dates three days apart. And Tibbles registered some time later, perhaps several days later.

There is no information in the registers about date or place of death, for that one must apply for a copy death certificate which costs £7; usually, but not always, the place of death will be specified. Of course if the death occurred at a hospital or similar, that is the place that will be noted and is no help in establishing a crash site.

regards
DaveW

[paulmcmillan]

Henk

George H Bell 748794 died 26/7/40 registered at 6a 984.

Eric W Bell 77775 died 23/7/40 also registered at 6a 984
Pilot of L1105.

William Tibbles 754133 died 25.7.40 registered at 6a 1018
Harvard P5901?

So the two Bells were registered at the same time (and from the same source?) although dates three days apart. And Tibbles registered some time later, perhaps several days later.

There is no information in the registers about date or place of death, for that one must apply for a copy death certificate which costs £7; usually, but not always, the place of death will be specified. Of course if the death occurred at a hospital or similar, that is the place that will be noted and is no help in establishing a crash site.

regards
DaveW


Of course there could be a typo in the registered number when entered into the index with the co-incidence of the name Bell - I.e Look up "Second Bell" and find entry of "First Bell" and use that

[paulmcmillan]

Botha I - L6124 - 1 (C)OTU - crashed in forced landing Threapland Moss, Aspatria, Cumberland;

According to Air Crashes in Lake District Pilot was P/O Bradshaw - Aircraft badly damaged after forced landing due to mechanical problems but crew OK. Aircraft recovered by salvage unit

[Henk Welting]

Thanks Paul for pilot's name Botha L6124.
Regards,
Henk.

[Ross_McNeill]

I'll bring this back to the top for new thoughts.

F1180 confirms Tibbles as sole casualty on a solo flightin the Harvard.

Regards
Ross

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

400725 - Unaccounted Airmen - 25-07-1940

From Henk's List -

UK
GOULDING, Harry - Lac - 334035 - RAF - 611 Sqn.
St. Helens Cemetery, Lancashire.
DOAS, Cause of death ?

SAUNDERS, Theodore Frederick - AC1c - 124217 - RAF.
Cirencester ( Chesterton ) Cemetery, Gloucestershire.
Cause of death ?

From CWGC -

AUSTRALIA
LOCK, Allan Frederick - AC1c - 8969 - RAAF.
Box Hill General Cemetery, Victoria, Australia.
Cause of death ? Double Pneumonia.

BELGIUM
WAY, Basil Hugh - F/Lt - 33402 - RAF - MiD.
Oostduinkerke Communal Cemetery, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium.
Spitfire Ia - R6707 - 54 Sqn.

GERMANY
POWER, Bruce Andrew - P/O - 75988 - RAFVR.
Reichswald Forest War Cemetery, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany.
Wellington Ic - P9275 - 99 Sqn.

NETHERLANDS
HUNT, Harry Walter - Sgt - 580545 - RAF.
Jonkerbos War Cemetery, Gelderland, Netherlands.
Blenheim IV - R3836 - 53 Sqn.

JEFFREY, Alastair John Oswald - F/O - 39740 - RAF.
Flushing ( Vlissingen ) Northern Cemetery, Zeeland, Netherlands.
Spitfire Ia - P9421 - 64 Sqn.

UK
GOUT, Geoffrey Kenneth - P/O - 41918 - RAF.
St. Eval Churchyard, Cornwall.
Spitfire Ia - P9493 - 234 Sqn.

CULVERWELL, John Henry - Sgt - 529270 - RAF.
Cardiff ( Cathays) Cemetery, Glamorganshire.
Hurricane I - P3596 - 87 Sqn.

BIRD, Charles Alec - P/O - 41543 - RAF.
Adel ( St. John the Baptist) Churchyard, Yorkshire.
Hurricane I - P3271 - 5 M U.

FINNIE, Archibald - P/O - 79158 - RAFVR.
Margate Cemetery, Kent.
Spitfire Ia - R6816 - 54 Sqn.

SMITH, Andrew Thomas - Sqn/Ldr - 90337 - RAF (AAF).
Delamere (St. Peter ) Churchyard, Cheshire.
Spitfire Ia - R6693 - 610 Sqn.

SMITH, Robert Alexander Dalrymple - P/O - 81045 - RAFVR.
New Kilpatrick (Or Hillfoot ) Cemetery, Dunbartonshire.
Beaufort I - N1088 - 12 M U.

JOHNSON, Gerald John Loome - Sgt - 742087 - RAFVR.
Leicester ( Gilroes ) Cemetery, Leicestershire.
Master I - N7690 - 14 SFTS.

TIBBLES, William Henry - Sgt - 754133 - RAFVR.
Southchurch (Holy Trinity ) Churchyard, Essex.
Harvard I - P5901 - 15 FTS.

THEINER, Walter - GAF.
LINGENBRINK, Kurt - GAF.
These two airmen rest at Cannock Chase German Military Cemetery, Staffordshire.

FREITAG, Roman - GAF.
MUELLER, Paul - GAF.
These two airmen rest at Kirkwall ( St. Olaf's) Cemetery, Orkney.

Cause of death of these four German airmen named above ?

The following nine airmen are all commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial, Surrey.

SELLWOOD, Kenneth Reginald - Sgt - 743306 - RAFVR.
Wellington Ic - P9275 - 99 Sqn.

MORIARTY, Bartholomew - Sgt - 615346 - RAF.
STARKY, David Bayntun - P/O - 41752 - RAF.
These two airmen were crew of Blenheim IV - R3836 - 53 Sqn.

MARTIN, Raymond Bradshaw - Sgt - 751104 - RAFVR.
HASWELL, Hugh - F/O - 72482 - RAFVR.
SIMPSON, Derrick Barrie - Sgt - 755136 - RAFVR.
These three airmen were crew of Blenheim IV - L9473 - 59 Sqn.

GIBSON, Kenneth Victor - Sgt - 905664 - RAFVR.
PARKINSON, Jack - Sgt - 748411 - RAFVR.
SHORT, Rupert Edward - P/O - 42770 - RAF.
These three airmen were crew of Blenheim IV - N6174 - 101 Sqn.

Alex

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello,

AUSTRALIA.

8969 AC1 Allan Frederick LOCK RAAF.

8969 AC1 (Flight Rigger) Allan Frederick LOCK RAAF (of No.1 Service Flying Training School, Point Cook, Victoria), was admitted to the Queen Mary Infectious Diseases Hospital, Fairfield, on 10 July, 1940, dangerously ill, suffering from Broncho Pneumonia. AC1 Allan Lock succumbed to the infection on 25 July, 1940.

8969 Allan Frederick Lock RAAF, never served in the A.I.F., as postulated elsewhere on this forum

Col.

[malcolm_raf]

Hi

GOULDING, Harry - He was serving as an Electrician with No 611 Sqn, and died from heart failure

Malcolm

[AL90]

Hi,
FREITAG, Roman - GAF. Uffz
MUELLER, Paul - GAF. Gefr,
Part of crew of He - 111 H - 3 T5+AL which was shot down by 3 Squadron off Rora Head, Hoy. 2 further crew missing and 1 POW.

Alan.

[Andy Marden]

BIRD, Charles Alec - P/O - 41543 - RAF.
Adel ( St. John the Baptist) Churchyard, Yorkshire.
Hurricane I - P3271 - 5 M U.

THEINER, Walter - GAF.
LINGENBRINK, Kurt - GAF.
These two airmen rest at Cannock Chase German Military Cemetery, Staffordshire.

Alex,
These two entries are linked.
Uffz Theiner was a crew member of 5./KG51 Ju88 9K+GN which was lost during an attack on Hucclecote.
It was attacked by P/O Bird's Hurricane. Some sources attribute the losses to a mid-air collision.
I cannot find Lingenbrink however. The other three members of the above crew were all made POW.
Andy

[wwrsimon]

Hello

LINGENBRINK, Kurt - Do-17M A5+EA of Stab StG 1 according to this site:

https://www.battle-of-britain.org.uk/history/battle-of-britain-july-1940-day-by-day

"Do 17M A5+EA of Stab StG 1 was shot down by 152 Squadron comprising of Flight Lieutenant E.C. Deanesley, Pilot Officers R.M. Hogg, F.H. Holmes and Sergeant R. Wolton at 11.15 whilst engaged on a photo-reconnaissance mission. The aircraft crashed at East Fleet Farm near Fleet with Fw B. Erdmann and Fw E. Grossmann were captured but Uffz K. Lingenbrink was killed."

According to the Wiki page on StG 1 they operated Do-17s as well as their Ju-87 Stukas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturzkampfgeschwader_1

Regards

Simon

[jonheyworth]

Theodore Frederick Saunders 124217 , attached to 13 MU , was taken dangerously ill on 18 June and was admitted to RAF Hospital, Henlow, he improved on 21 July but relapsed on 1 julynand died of cellulitis inflammation of the aureole tissue of the face