Aircraft loss, Tiree.

**AlanW** · 25th January 2011, 11:35

Hi,
Has anyone got any info on an aircraft going into the sea off Tiree, 04/12/1943 please.
tia.....Alan.

**COL BRUGGY** · 25th January 2011, 12:41

Hello Alan,

There is this loss on 6-12-1943:

Mon 6 Dec 1943
FLEET AIR ARM - SCOTLAND
Bombing exercise
836 Squadron, FAA (Maydown, Co. Londonderry - HMS Shrike - 18th Naval MAC-ship Wing)

Swordfish II HS454 - dived into the sea off Ballochantuy, Mull of Kintyre, 7 miles NNE of Machrihanish at 1515. The bodies of two crew members were recovered , while the pilot is commemorated on the RNZN Memorial at Devonport, Auckland.

Pilot: Sub-Lt (A) William Henry Hagar SMALL, RNZNVR - Age 23.

See:
For Your Tomorrow:A Record of New Zealanders who have Died while Serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915. Volume Two: Fates 1943-1998.
Martyn,Errol W.
Christchurch:Volplane Press,1999.
p.169

Crew:

Sub-Lt (A) William Henry Hagar SMALL RNZNVR +
Mid.(A) Alan Angus DOUGLAS-MATHESON RNVR +
FAA/FX86660 L/A Stanley Alfred PAIGE RN +

Col.

**Ross_McNeill** · 25th January 2011, 12:43

Halifax DG316

Regards
Ross

**AlanW** · 25th January 2011, 12:48

Hi Col,
Thanks for the reply, but wrong date and aircraft. I should have given a bit more help, i have death certificate of F/Sgt Fergus Neil, (Pilot) recording death as "in sea off Tiree" 04/12/43.
Regards......Alan

**AlanW** · 25th January 2011, 12:49

Thanks Ross,

**AL90** · 25th January 2011, 18:45

Agree with Ross, Halifax DG316 which crashed at sea soon after take off. Also lost was F/Lt. J.M Hartley who's body was recovered from the sea on 02/01/44 according to his death cert.

Alan.

**AlanW** · 25th January 2011, 19:09

Thanks Alan, for the extra name.
Alan.

**Keith Bryers** · 26th January 2011, 20:41

Aircraft exploded in sea 200 yards from low water mark, Hynish Bay, Tiree, at 00:24, whilst on a night dual training flight. One survivor, 1333692 F/Sgt S F Bartrum (pilot), four others killed.

Keith

**AlanW** · 26th January 2011, 21:47

Thanks Keith, for another name.
Alan

**Lyffe** · 27th January 2011, 23:26

Alan,

DG316 was a Halifax of the Meteorological Conversion Unit co-located with 518 Squadron at Tiree. The crew was engaged on a night training sortie with Flt Lt J M Hartley DFC as the QFI, when it crashed into the sea about 0.5 mile beyond the N-S runway.

Other than the QFI, on board were:

F/Sgt Bartam - Pilot under instruction
F/O D P McLaughlin - believed to be the navigator +
Sgt McNeill - believed to be the FE +
Sgt Bennett - believed to be WOp/AG +
Sgt Barrett - believed to be WOp/AG +

(Note there were 6 on board.)

The bodies of the last three were never recovered, but the mystery is that the CWGC appears to have no record of their names.

The above via Peter Rackliff based on the 518 Sqn ORB (he didn't access the F1180).

From the LG Supplement; 1 June 1943

Distinguished Flying Cross

F/O John Mercer Hartley (100579), RAFVR, 58 Squadron.

This officer, who has completed many sorties, has rendered excellent service. Recently he has executed three attacks on U-boats, pressing home these operations with great skill and vigour. F/O Hartley has invariably displayed high courage and great determination.

Brian