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Thread: Gunnery acronyms at 9 B&GS

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    Default Gunnery acronyms at 9 B&GS

    When at 9 B&GS my father used the following acronyms in his log book FRBT, FRBRST, FRQT and FRUTT in relation to gunnery training in a Whitley.

    My understanding is that the acronyms refer to where the trainee was firing but I would appreciate a more concise description.

    Regards, David.
    Researching my father's time with 50 Squadron, 97 Squadron, Dulug Luft, Stalag Luft VI, Stalag 357 and Stalag Luft III.

    http://wallyswar.wordpress.com/

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    Hi David
    I think you are right and the F refers to Firing, the R could be Rounds indicating live firing as opposed to simulated in a domed building that gave the illusion of firing(that at Kinloss was still there in 1957,known as the kremlin for its resemblance to the onion domes of the Cathedral near the Kremlin in Moscow). T is probably Target of a sort indicated by the other letters and TT could thus be Towed Target. Are there any references that could indicate blank firing as, say, in fighter affiliation when live ammunition would not feature?
    Regards
    Dick

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    Hi David,

    Free gun beam test = FRBT
    Free gun under tail test = FRUT
    Free gun quarter Gross over = FRQT

    So it seems to me he passed those gunnery exercises on Battle or another qircraft rather than on Whitley.

    Pavel
    Czechoslovak Airmen in the RAF 1940-1945
    http://cz-raf.webnode.cz

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    Many thanks.

    Pavel it was both Battle and Whitley, the log book can be seen here. https://wallyswar.wordpress.com/gunnery-course/
    Researching my father's time with 50 Squadron, 97 Squadron, Dulug Luft, Stalag Luft VI, Stalag 357 and Stalag Luft III.

    http://wallyswar.wordpress.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by CZ_RAF View Post
    Hi David,

    Free gun beam test = FRBT
    Free gun under tail test = FRUT
    Free gun quarter Gross over = FRQT

    So it seems to me he passed those gunnery exercises on Battle or another qircraft rather than on Whitley.

    Pavel
    Hi Pavel

    Maybe that third one might be Free (mounted) Gun Quarter cross (not gross)-over Test. Perhaps simulating an attack from the rear quarter of the plane and crossing behind it, to make sure the gunner knew not to keep blasting away and blow his own tail off!?

    Just a thought.

    Ian
    Last edited by ianh; 11th August 2015 at 18:39.

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    I think Ian is on the money (that is "gross"over should be "cross" over), but will leave it to others who specialize in the gentle art of aerial gunnery.
    David D

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Layne View Post
    When at 9 B&GS my father used the following acronyms in his log book FRBT, FRBRST, FRQT and FRUTT in relation to gunnery training in a Whitley.

    My understanding is that the acronyms refer to where the trainee was firing but I would appreciate a more concise description.

    Regards, David.
    Hello David

    According to an A/G Table across the top it has a column headed "Rounds (Footage)" and another headed %. Down the side of the table are those listed immediately below, with others beginning F.R., which was not stated? When the A/G completes each part in his Log, the F.R., is usually missed out when written in full, followed with xxx Rounds and Cine Gun was measured in feet:-

    200 yds range
    Cine Film or Films Cine Footage
    Air to Ground or/and Air to Sea
    F.R.B., or Beam
    F.R.B.T., Beam Test (per official label in A/G Log)
    F.R.B.R.S., or Beam Rel. Speed [unfortunately the 'Rel' is shortened]
    F.R.T.D., or Tracer Demonstration
    F.R.U.T., or Under Tail
    F.R.U.T.T., or Under Tail Test
    F.R.B.R.S.T. is Beam Rel. Speed [T apparently Test]

    Apparently, the "Rel." in B.R.S. - Beam Relative Speed.

    Don't ask me to explain further, I haven't a clue!

    T.T.A.F., was apparently Towed Target Air Firing, in an Observer/Gunner book.
    Last edited by Mark Hood; 18th August 2015 at 13:59.

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    Default Re: Gunnery acronyms at 9 B&GS

    Interesting posts.To shed a little more light:

    FR refers to "free gun" however mounted: turret, pillar, scarff ring (examples: Blenheim, Battle, Hind) and apply of course to Air Gunnery syllabus exercises and qual tests.

    Thus

    FRBT: Free Gun Beam Test
    FRBRST: Free Gun Beam Relative Speed Test
    FRQT: Free Gun Quarter Test
    FRUTT: Free Gun Under Tail Test

    B&GS course Log Book stamps record these in full and also included
    Air to Ground and
    Free Astern

    I recall seeing instances with these same exercise abbreviations but omitting the FR (taken as read).

    Sources:[/I]
    RAF Form 1767 Observer's and Air Gunner's Flying Log Book 745462 Clark CFR

    My 211 Squadron site offers broad coverage of RAF WW2 usages in the Glossary page at http://www.211squadron.org/glossary.html
    incl a section on Abbreviations at http://www.211squadron.org/glossary.html#Abbreviations
    Compiled from a range of official war-time sources, as noted.

    In addition, this forum has a standing thread on abbreviations here:
    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...tion-Reference
    Last edited by Don Clark; 16th June 2021 at 21:43.
    Toujours ŗ propos

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    Default Re: Gunnery acronyms at 9 B&GS

    Hi David,
    Iím not sure if youíre aware of it, but the photograph on your webpage showing the inspection of the sleeve target in front of the Battle was taken at Penrhos during a press visit there in the early summer of 1940. In fact the Battle on the extreme left of the photograph coded Ď4í, was L5004, one of the Battles recorded in your fathers logbook.
    Hope itís of interest.
    Ian

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