258 Sqn Thunderbolts FL827 and HD141

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello,

Seeking full service history/fate of Thunderbolt I FL827. Could someone with A-B's FA100 to FZ999, please oblige.

Col.

[AUS]

Hi Col,

This does not specifically answer your query, but I guess you noticed RV Palesy (Aus.413027) has a casualty file in relation to FL827? According to the diary of LD O’Connor (Aus.430394) - Palesy was with 258 Sqn RAF when the unit were converting from Hurricanes to Thunderbolts. This fits with the casualty file date of 29 Sept 44. Ralph apparently broke his leg when bailing out at 500ft during a training flight (a google search shows this was a collision with HD141). It seems Palesy may have rejoined 258 around May 45.

Regards, Drew

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello Drew,

Yes, I had the basic information on AUS413027 W/O Ralph Vincent PALESY RAAF, but lacked a unit. Hence the need for a history of Thunderbolt I FL827. Oddly, it appears as if Palesy never applied for membership of the Caterpillar Club, at least he is not mentioned in any of the standard refs.

Thanks for your help.

Would still like a service history of Thunderbolt FL827, and to help in identifying the pilot of Thunderbolt I HD141, a history of this aircraft would be helpful.

Col.

[malcolm_raf]

Hi Col

FL827 was with 258 Sqn until colliding with HD141 also of 258 Sqn

Malcolm

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello Malcolm,

Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

Col.

[wwrsimon]

Hello

With regards to the loss of these two Thunderbolts:

http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...php?uniq=FL827

http://www.rafcommands.com/database/...php?uniq=hd141

The Accident Cards for these aircraft have Vart in FL827 and Palesy in HD141.

On the card for HD141:
In formation collided with by FL827. Pilot baled out. No fault. Other a/c responsible for collision.

On the card for FL827:
Whilst forming up pilot got above leader, tried to slide in from above and collided with a/c HD141. Pilot baled out. Pilot failed to form up from below as briefed. Tried to get into position from above and caused collision. Blame and Discip. Action: Pilot LGC.

Regards

Simon

[Jagan]

Thanks Simon for the details - it also helped me look up the previous thread. I have now merged both the threads. I will my DB accordingly

[Tonykart]

Hello
It was my father that was in HD141...he did indeed carry the can for the collision but gladly both pilots got out. My father did apply for Caterpillar Club membership.
Regards
Tony

[wwrsimon]

Thanks for the correction Tony.

I'm researching aircrew from the North East, and came across your Dad's name in the Newcastle Journal from October 4th 1945:

Darlington D.F.C.
Flying Officer Ralph Vart, son of Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Vart, of Kensington Gardens, Darlington, has been awarded the D.F.C. for outstanding leadership and courage.

Do you have your Dad's R.A.F. log-book? I'm interested in an Op he flew on April 1st 1944 - the Sortie Report in the 258 Sqn O.R.B. Appendices reads as follows:

2 aircraft [Hurricane IIc]
M – F/O Betts, C. C.
N – F/Sgt Vart, R.
Locate gun in square 4543
MAUNGNAMA
5/10ths at 5,000 ft, good vis.
11.35 Maungnama
12.05 Maungnama
Gun located at 452431. No rounds fired. Both aircraft hit by m/g (possibly 0.5) on completion of mission.
Aircraft ‘N’ crash landed Maungnama. Aircraft ‘N’ Cat. 2. F/Sgt. R. Vart OK. Aircraft ‘M’ no damage. Gun position reported to Army Brigadier on landing. Army artillery pounded reported position forthwith, and gun as [sic] now been reported as destroyed. Pilots report other guns position which fired at them in INBAUK area 475420. More than one gun in this area. Aircraft were hit at 1,000 feet and pilots think at least 30 rounds of .5 m/g with tracer mixed were fired from at least two positions. Accurate for height and direction. N.M.
One .5 explosive cannon extracted from bottom port panel. Bullet punctured air, hydraulic and oil systems and put petrol control cock U/S.

Regards

Simon

[Tonykart]

Simon
My brother has Dads logbook but i have seen the ORBs as you have. I recall my father saying that he acted as the bait in that he went in lower to draw any fire whilst his partner staying higher looked out for the muzzle flashes. First round went straight through hydraulic pipe in front fuse and with oil all over the windscreen he considered himself lucky to get the plane down.
Regards
Tony