POW and Evaders Database Work

[Jagan]

Jagan thanks - will this include the W0392 list records as well ? Paul

Only the Italy List.. the Germany list i would guess is already part of Ross's DB. or the element of duplication is so much it will be a task..

If anyone wants to sign up on the POW DB enrichment/enhancement - sign up here on this thread :-) .

DB size..

13862 records (some element of duplication)

4453 have full names - rest initials.
8604 have date of capture
8896 have ranks
8662 have units
8584 have aircraft serials associated

[Jagan]

I have refreshed the data that Pete has worked on for a while, which has been married with the data contributed by Rob Davis at http://robdavistelford.co.uk/webspace/raf_bc/index.html


http://www.rafcommands.com/database/pows/

some minor changes to the query page include

*A graph that shows the number of POWs with known dates of capture as the war progressed
*Ability to query POWs in a "Date Range"
*Click on Service number/Name to go to detail page - to fetch linked data from other DBs.

[Resmoroh]

Hello All,
OK – So who is our Yugoslav expert?
In Ross’ list of WW2 PoWs there is a P M CRNJANSKI. He was a Plt Off in the RAF. There are CRNJANSKI’s in FREEBMD (same spelling despite transliterations from whatever version of the Cyrillic script(s) they were using). There is an M Milos Crnjanski who appears in the Diplomatic Lists for Yugoslavia in London in WW2, and gets Naturalised on 24 Jan 1951 (LG). He is said to have had “private means” – which makes my antennae twitch quite violently!! Now I don’t know much about the family names in the former Yugoslavia, so I don’t know if this guy might be a (close?) relative of our P M Crnjanski? If our P M Crnjanski was a Plt Off (of Yugoslav extraction) then his Commissioning, etc, is unlikely to appear in the LG to protect rellies back home? Also, there is no a/c serial against his entry in Ross’ list, so we don’t know if he was a fighter pilot, or bomber/coastal/recce aircrew.
He is one (of very, very, many!!!) on the PoW list(s) about whom little is known.
Can anybody fill in any of the blanks?
This (and others) is a problem akin to “painting The Forth Bridge”! I might seek more help in the future!
TIA
Peter Davies

[vrajm]

Hi,

AIR 81/7905
Description:

Lieutenant P Crnjanski (Royal Yugoslav Air Force): injured; aircraft accident, Hurricane Z6985, 50 Squadron, 23 July 1941. With photographs

http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ls/r/C16757202

Rather strange: No. 50 Squadron had Hampdens...

Regards

Mojmir

[Resmoroh]

Mojmir,
Mni tks. I had a feeling that this one might be "difficult"!! We shall just have to keep tapping on the woodwork to see what falls out!!
Rgds
Peter Davies

[davew]

According to FAA A/c 1939-1945, Hurricane Z6985 was with 51 R & SU at Burgh al Arab, Egypt until transfer to 806 Squadron 14/10/1941, in a crash 26/11/1941. No crew names quoted in this entry.
From August 1941 806 Squadron became part of the Naval Fighter Squadron in the Western Desert.

DaveW

[vrajm]

Pavle Crnjanski,

glider and power pilot, flies no more. He lives in Belgrade. He was a prisoner in Germany during the war, as he had served in the R.A.F., but returned to lead the Yugoslavian National Team for many years.

BELGRAD DEFENDERS Yugoslavian famous pilots in April War

http://www.igleize.fr/aces/ww2apr.htm

Is it the same man? (SOE operation)

04/02/1942, Operation Disclaim, Airborne Sokolac (Bosnia), Maj Cavan Elliot, 2Lt Pavle Crnjanski, Sgt Petar Miljković, Sgt William Chapman (W/T)
Almost immediately picked up by Domobrans and handed over to the Germans in Sarajevo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia_and_the_Allies

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=85607

Mojmir

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello.

1./

2nd Puk fighters were also active on 7 April (1941), patrolling over Central Serbia in expectation of Luftwaffe attacks on factories in Kragujevac and Kraljevo which in the event never materialized. However, when two pairs of 31 Grupa Me109s took off on one such patrol, one pair spotted two Hs126As east of the Morava river, almost at the same position as that shot down by Pajic on the previous day. Pilots Kodra and Cranjanski* opened fire and hit the first Henschel at once and it went down to crash near the monastery of St Petka, the pilot, Josef Ricklin, and his observer were killed. Meanwhile the second Hs126A made good its escape unharmed.

Index (p.421) - Crnjanski, 2/Lt Pavle, 31 Gr., 2 Fighter Puk. p.211.

See:
Air War Over Jugoslavia, Greece and Crete 1940-41.
Shores,C., Cull,B. & N Malizia
London:Grub Street,1987.
p.211.

2./

No.30 Squadron, RAF.

Plt. Off. H. K. Cartwright force-landed on mud flats ten miles west of Rosetta, not injuring himself badly but severely damaging the aircraft. Another Hurricane was written off when on 23rd July (1941), one of the Yugoslavians, Plt. Off. Cranjanski [sic], crashed near Edku following engine trouble.

See:
Flat Out The Story of 30 Squadron Royal Air Force.
Hamlin,John F.
Tunbridge Wells:Air-Britain(Historians),2002.
p.151.

3./

A second joint British/Royal Yugoslav mission, code-named 'Hydra', had been put ashore from a submarine on 4 February (1942); Maj. Atherton's task was to contact Hudson who had been out of communications since December. A Royal Yugoslav party had also been landed, independently, on 27 January but it would be some months before it came on the air and by then Atherton had been murdered. The 'Disclaim' mission, who were to be dropped by Austin and Jackson in November, were still waiting for the weather to improve and their chance came on the night of 5/6 February. Maj Elliot, Sgt Chapman, his wireless operator, and two Royal Jugoslav officers were parachuted blind from a Halifax of No. 138 Squadron which had flown them from Malta to Mt Rominija, close to Sarajevo in eastern Bosnia. If Atherton's party had reported favourably a second party were to have been parachuted in; the 'Disclaim' party were as ill-fated as Atherton's and were captured three days later by Ustasa patrols and turned over to the Germans.

See: Flights Of The Forgotten: Special Duties Operations in World War Two.
Merrick,K.A.
London:Arms & Armour,1989.
p.154.

Col.

[Resmoroh]

Hello All,
Mni tks for all the information! I think we may be getting near the truth!
The political/military situation in the former Yugoslavia at the time (as I understand it) was that there was Govt in Belgrade running the country, there was a Govt In Exile in London, the Germans and/or Italians were occupying the country, there were two(at least!) revolutionary/resistance organisations who disliked each other intensely, and various bits of the country (depending on religious persuasion) were likely to "change sides" without notice. If I had been told that I was to parachute (blindly!!) into the middle of all this, and to get it all sorted out, I would have assumed that I had upset a Senior Officer very badly!!
Tks again!
Peter Davies

[Resmoroh]

Hello All,

I have been doing some “back-office donkey-work” for the POW Database Update Project. This is mainly the manual transcription of data that cannot, easily, be input by electronic manipulation. This project concentrates on the European/African TOOs (the FE is “A Spreadsheet Too Far”!!!). We are mainly looking for the missing Forenames (and some Service Numbers). Most of the published data have errors. Some are typos, and some OCR errors - and some are just plain wrong!!
I have just finished trying to reconcile the 800-odd RAAF entries. There are a few I can’t sort out.

BAGNALL, ??, S H, 1945-01-28, ??, 15 Sqn, ??, HK618 – is he RAAF?
BENNETT, ??, J, 1941-11-28, Sgt, RAAF, 11 Sqn, ??, L1317
BRETHERTON, ??, F J, 1943-12-29, ??, RAAF, 102 Sqn, ??, JD412
CHAPMAN, ??, G A, 1942-12-02, Sgt, RAAF, 102 Sqn, ??, W7884
RUSSELL, ??, G G, 1942-07-31, Sgt, RAAF, 14 OTU, 402253, N9062
RUSSELL, ??, G G, 1942-04-04, Flt Lt, RAAF, 457 Sqn, ??, BP859.

There are 3 others, but they’re in the FE. Can anybody help?
It was very easy to work with https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/. The other nations might copy - except that they will, no doubt, quote Data Protection as a reason for not doing so.

I am advised (off-forum) that the RCAF (and there are lots of them!) is very difficult.

The RNZAF should be easier if I can find the site that lists the full details of all RNZAF PoWs?

There are a lot of SAAF, but I only have half-a-dozen Forenames, and have no idea how the SAAF numbering system worked. I am aware (from contacts in that country) that accessing the right department in the RSA military is very difficult – and very time consuming!

The non-Commonwealth (mainly European) Air Forces might be difficult, except(!!) that the data I am after will already be known by the individual national/Unit historians/researchers. Can I have it, please?

TIA
Peter Davies