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Thread: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

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    Default Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    Hello All,

    Does anyone know what happened to the Ray Sturtivant photographic collection? Is this held by Air Britain as I am trying to locate a copy of one of his credited photos of stored Martinets at Evanton (1947). A poor copy appears in the Airfield Focus publication for this airfield.

    Kind regards,

    Tim

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    Default Re: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    I don't know about this particular collection, but I have seen bits of other well known collections being sold one photo at a time on eBay. It is a worry if such collections are being broken up and lost forever.

    It also raises another problem in the copyright/licensing of photos for publication. If Ray, for example gave written permission some time ago to use a photo and that phot is now in the hands of a private collector can the new owner claim infringement. Also what if the photo is in the temporary hands of an auction house?
    Last edited by PNK; 16th April 2021 at 08:59.

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    Default Re: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    Hi

    I have a fairly strong feeling that Ray's collection went to the FAA Museum - might be worth checking there.

    Steve

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    Default Re: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    PNK / Steve,

    Many thanks for your replies I will enquire at the FAAM to see if I can track Mr Sturtivants collection down.

    Kind regards

    Tim

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    Default Re: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    Quote Originally Posted by PNK View Post
    I don't know about this particular collection, but I have seen bits of other well known collections being sold one photo at a time on eBay. It is a worry if such collections are being broken up and lost forever.

    It also raises another problem in the copyright/licensing of photos for publication. If Ray, for example gave written permission some time ago to use a photo and that phot is now in the hands of a private collector can the new owner claim infringement. Also what if the photo is in the temporary hands of an auction house?
    Hi
    I would presume that the copyright exists with the holder of the original negative or the photographer who took the photo, or owner of the film or camera, or employer of photographer ( a can of worms ? )
    Not with the holder of a copy or print
    of which there was most likely more than one
    cheers
    jerry

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    Default Re: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    A can of worms indeed. The more it is explained the less I understand how it works in the real world.

    I always find it odd that private collection can claim copyright when copies of the same photos are held by IWM, Historic England and commercial companies, who also demand licensing fees, so extortionate. The water becomes muddier if we include USAAF photos because they should be free to use without charge (apart from repro fees).

    My late father-in-laws photo collection contains many Royal Navy photos, some which were obviously taken on board ship of him and his mates. Others are obviously trades or purchased photos and include a photo of HMS Barham exploding and some rather gruesome photos of Japanese atrocities. The rest are postcards of various postcards around the world. Try working out who owns the copyright on that lot!

    The way around it is to credit the photo to "[insert name] collection".

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    Default Re: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    I understand that all service photos are claimed Crown Copyright by HMSO, and those WII ones and older considered in public domain. Nonetheless there is something like collection copyright, and art licence copyright. For example, one may prepare an album containing no single photo copyrighted by author. If someone copies a single photo, there is no problem, but if one shall copy whole or significant part of album, then it is copyright violation.
    Anyway, if I had any RS collection photo I would just credit that to him.
    https://www.facebook.com/Franciszek-Grabowski-241360809684411/

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    Default Re: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    Interesting discussion. I'm probably going to put up a website in the coming months with some of dad's stuff, mostly his own photos. I have all of his "Strike photos" which have a clear watermark on the back: A [crown] M Crown Copyright Reserved. There are two issues with this: 1) the RCAF squadrons were funded by Canada and under Canadian Command, and I don't think the AM copyright applies in this instance. 2) These have been in dad's possession until his death and now are in my possession. That's over 75 years now. The CND photos were provided to me by the CND and I received as letter as such providing me permission to use them. Dad's own photos I will claim as Copyright, no reproduction or use without my expressed permission.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    I wonder if Canada has the same rules as the USA, where you are free to copy most wartime military photos.

    I don't know if US forces in the UK had the same restrictions on private photos taken with their own cameras as UK forces, and indeed UK civilians. Many civilians were fined for taking photos of war related subjects and the films confiscated. I am not sure about the rights pertaining to those that didn't get caught or those civilians that had permission (press or local professionals for recording events) to take war related photos, bomb damage being a common one.

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    Default Re: Ray Sturtivant Photo Collection

    Hi All

    According to the MOD Directorate of Intellectual Property Rights, Crown Copyright expires 50 years after the date the photo was taken.

    Malcolm

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