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Thread: WO416 Coverage Dates

  1. #1
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    Default WO416 Coverage Dates

    WO416

    War Office: German Record cards of British and Commonwealth Prisoners of War and some Civilian Internees, Second World War

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C14541141

    I am looking at these records and all not catalogued at the National Archives yet - BUT this does give an idea when they will be


    Example of what is there

    Name DateOfBirth YearOfBirth MonthAndYearOfBirth Age PlaceOfBirth Service Rank RegimentOrUnitOrSquadronOrVessel ServiceNumber DateOfCapture TheatreOfCapture CampNameOrNumber PoWNumber DateOfDeath
    Harold [Frederick] Good or [Goode] 11/6/1921 NULL NULL NULL London Royal Air Force Sergeant [467 Squadron] 138276 17 April 1943 [unspecified] Stalag VIG Bonn 10624 23 April 1943

    There is one main alphabetical run by surname (pieces 1-406) and a smaller run (pieces 407-414) arranged by specific nationalities and/or service arm
    With the support of volunteers we are cataloguing pieces 1 to 414 by name of individual (pieces 415-417 cannot be catalogued as these contain cards for unidentified deceased individuals)
    The records are being catalogued in numerical order by piece with the following current projected completion dates, which may be subject to change:

    Pieces 1-51 (Erling Aaby-Cyril Burrows) and 407-414 (various sub-series) All fully catalogued by name
    Pieces 52-110 (Dennis Burrows-Albert Elliot) All fully catalogued by name
    Pieces 111-171 (Alexander Elliot-Alec Heggie) All fully catalogued by name
    Pieces 172-229 (Andrew J Heggie-Charles Lusted) All fully catalogued by name
    Pieces 230-271 (Frederick Lusted-Edward C Nicholson) by end of June 2021
    Pieces 272-320 (F W Nicholson-G Scarcliffe) by end of February 2022
    Pieces 321-370 (Trevor Scard-Thomas Unwin) by end of September 2022
    Pieces 371-406 (William Urwin-Piotz Zyzmiewski) by end of March 2023
    Pieces 407-414 All fully catalogued by name

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to paulmcmillan For This Useful Post:

    jonny (22nd April 2021)

  3. #2
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    Default Re: WO416 Coverage Dates

    Hello Paul (et al),
    Mni tks for the information – and the data.
    I looked to see if there was any way that the data could be mechanically assimilated into the Forum’s Google-sheet. Too difficult – above my computer expertise pay-grade!!
    So I took the WO416Working.xlsx you sent me (for which mni tks!) and stripped out the non-Air Force(s), and US. This left me, theoretically, with UK, Commonwealth, and (some) Allied Air Forces POWs. I then ordered by ‘Name’. It appeared to order by Forename(s)!! I then took the top few I was presented with and prepared them, manually (checked them against the main body of the Forum sheet, and CWGC, etc), for addition to the bottom of the Forum’s Google-sheet. They are below. I have some comments (below the list):-

    1 CLIFFORD-READE, Alfred Pearsall, A P, Flt Sgt, RAFVR, 102 Sqdn, 701654, d. 1941-04-05
    2 BREAKSPEAR, Allan Rothery, A R, Flt Sgt, RAAF, 412374, d. 1943-09-21
    3 GROSZECOWSKI, Beruch, B, RAF, 544, d. 1941-12-09
    4 GROSZEWSKI, Bernard, B, Fg Off, 315 Sqdn, P-0544, d. 1941-12-08
    5 CLITHERO, Brendan, B, Fg Off, RAFVR, 207 Sqdn, 116125, d. 1943-03-12
    6 CLIFTON, Charles Thomas, C T, Flt Sgt, RAFVR, 83 Sqdn, 1387289, d. 1943-02-28
    7 CLIMIE, Colin Black, C B, Flt Sgt, RAFVR, 1016825, d. 1942-04-29
    8 CLIFFORD, Denis John, D J, Sgt, RAFVR, 199 Sqdn, 1332298, d. 1943-03-12
    9 CLIFFORD, Denis Frederick, D F, Flt Sgt, RNZAF, 108 Sqdn, 402104, d. 1942-05-04

    The first thing that became apparent was that the 8 I had chosen all had Death Dates well before the end of WW2. Breakspear (#2) is, moreover, buried in a collective grave (CWGC) with others. This tells me (if I’m right?!) that the Germans extracted lots of unrecognisable body-parts from a crash – and ‘X’ sets of dog-tags. The body parts were interred, and the details of the dog-tags passed to the relevant authorities. Not – I would suggest – a ‘normal’ way a POW who died in captivity would be buried. So, one must ask – was he ever, technically, a POW?? And if he wasn’t, then how many other POWs on this s/sheet were never actually POWs but simply war casualties?
    Turning now to #3 and 4. #3 is the WO416 data. #4 is the same data, but extracted from https://listakrzystka.pl/en/. They are, clearly I would postulate, referring to the same man? But there are some significant differences!
    I do not want to make a major issue of this. I would like some policy guidance as to what can be transferred from the WO416 sheet to the rafcommands sheet (manually) before I spend nugatory time doing something which is not needed – or which can be obtained by spread-sheet manipulation!
    I will hold fire until the experts and/or national researchers have commented.
    HTH
    Peter Davies
    Meteorology is a science; good meteorology is an art!
    We might not know - but we might know who does!

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    Default Re: WO416 Coverage Dates

    Peter, Paul

    I will take a look at Paul's worksheet shortly. I will see -

    1. what records already exist in the current POW sheet that needs updating from paul. and fill in the missing details.
    2. records in paul sheet that are not in POW sheet that needs validation if they were really POWs.

    I will do this via some sort of short cut so this will not require the hours of toil.

    cheers

    Jagan

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