Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 58

Thread: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lincoln, England
    Posts
    1,091
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 406 Times in 373 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    Dave,
    Thanks. The crash report signal is useful. For those that want to see it:
    https://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/BlackHE.htm
    I have amended our entry for P3066:
    https://www.rafcommands.com/database...php?uniq=P3066
    Andy

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lincoln, England
    Posts
    1,091
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 406 Times in 373 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    Our database shows HV710 as being lost with 176 Sqn on 5 December 43:
    https://www.rafcommands.com/database...php?uniq=HV710
    Firstly, the comment "baled out safe" does not match the quoted text "crash landed SE of PALPUR" (which comes from the ORB) - I will amend this in due course.

    On the AM78 for HV710 the entry CAT FB 5.12.43 has been struck through and annotated "Cancelled, BBOC 28?.1.44".
    It is then shown as CAT E 31.1.44
    BBOC ACSEA 21.6.45
    CAT E 5.7.45
    SOC 5.7.45

    The relevant Air-Britain serials book shows it as 3/247/1 IAF SOC 5.7.45 (so no mention of 176 Sqn)

    Looking at the ORB: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8391139
    the compiler clearly originally entered the aircraft details in the format code/numbers, so HV709 code L for example is shown as L709.
    These have then been hand-amended with the serial prefix over-writing the code, and the code been added by hand underneath the entry.
    Clearly there was a problem with Whyte's aircraft, which just remains listed as S710 with no amendment. I am intrigued as to why this one aircraft is the only one not to have been "corrected".
    Is is possible that a "helpful" visitor to TNA wrote in these amendments before the file was scanned? If it was thought that HV710 was not lost it may have been ruled out as the aircraft involved.
    There don't seem to be any other obvious candidates for S710 though. It appears regularly in the preceding couple of months as well.
    I can only assume that the aircraft was eventually recovered from the incident and rebuilt for further service.
    Does anyone else have any thoughts?

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lincoln, England
    Posts
    1,091
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 406 Times in 373 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    Our database has a double-loss entry for Z4510 on 17 June 1941:
    https://www.rafcommands.com/database...php?uniq=Z4510
    with two pilots from two different squadrons being linked to its loss.
    The AM78 does not offer anything, just recording FB Cat E on 17.6.41, SOC 22.6.41.
    Before I delve further, can anyone offer me a solution please?

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lincoln, England
    Posts
    1,091
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 406 Times in 373 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    AIR81/7055 shows Wooller of 274 Sqn being involved in Hurricane "G4510", so I think this is the correct version. I have update our entry to show the link:
    https://www.rafcommands.com/database...php?uniq=Z4510
    We need a different serial for the loss of Grasset.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Delaware, USA
    Posts
    1,633
    Thanks
    849
    Thanked 343 Times in 218 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    Looking up the 1 Sqdn SAAF https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8406225 ORB
    There is no mention of Grasset in there. (Page 8)
    This post https://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sh...6667#post16667 however seems to indicatae Z4510 was written off in combat as flown by Dunrose.
    Also
    https://www.jeversteamlaundry.org/122wgpers004.htm
    The 274 Squadron section lost two pilots, Frenchman Sous-Lieutenant Robert Grasset (Z4510) and Pilot Officer Terrence Officer (Z4533), both of whom survived to be taken prisoner, Montpellier-born Grasset's aircraft crashing in the Hasbardia area of Tobruk.

    274 Sqn ORB https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...mageViewerLink Page 6 reveals that
    Grasset is with 274 Sqn as was Woolley. ->So I updated the DB to show Grassets unit as 274 Sqn


    All Hurricane Losses
    https://www.rafcommands.com/database...Search&qord=UT
    We need to add an entry for Dunrose's unidentified Hurricane?

    EDIT
    Page 15 of 274 Sqn ORB https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...mageViewerLink

    shows WOOLLER as a number ending with "977"
    GRASSETT is 4510
    Note WOOLER appears twice with first entry being P3977 ..
    https://www.rafcommands.com/database...&submit=Search

    I guess we need to delete the extra entry for WOOLLER and put a "+" in the first entry..
    Last edited by Jagan; 21st January 2024 at 23:58.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lincoln, England
    Posts
    1,091
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 406 Times in 373 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    A well-known photo shows Hurricane HV538/B in India:
    https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205409275
    The Air-Britain serials book shows this aircraft as 607/6 IAF - SOC 31.8.44.
    However, a profile in a book claims it was with 3 Sqn IAF (profile illustrated here):
    https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/...-here/page/95/
    To make matters worse, a caption to the same photo at;
    https://www.facebook.com/1496587907285169/posts/2960779297532682/
    claims that is was with "either No. 4 or No. 7 Sqn IAF"

    So that's four different squadrons quoted for the same aircraft!
    Can anyone offer any evidence either way please?

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lincoln, England
    Posts
    1,091
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 406 Times in 373 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagan View Post
    Page 15 of 274 Sqn ORB https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...mageViewerLink

    shows WOOLLER as a number ending with "977"
    GRASSETT is 4510
    Note WOOLER appears twice with first entry being P3977 ..
    https://www.rafcommands.com/database...&submit=Search

    I guess we need to delete the extra entry for WOOLLER and put a "+" in the first entry..
    Jagan,
    I'm still not 100% convinced we have this correct. I have found that in general, a Casualty File is a more accurate source of serial information than an ORB.
    However, there is no conclusive proof either way - I suspect we will never be sure who was flying what.
    Andy

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2023
    Posts
    56
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    HV538 6IAF 1130 hours 6-Mar-44 Landing Ratnap Bengal, failed to hold off, flew into deck bucking undercarriage and clipping propeller Cat AC F/O Nelkantan (IAF) safe

    HV538 mark IIB sent to India in August 1942, SOC 31-Aug-44

    3 IAF Hurricanes by November 1943, first IAF fighter bomber unit, the RAF notes few IIB were converted to fighter bomber as of mid 1944.

    4 IAF Hurricanes arriving June 1943, given 16 mark IIC in February 1944

    6 IAF Hurricanes from March 1943.

    7 IAF Flew Vengeances until at least June 1944, converted to Hurricanes in November 1944.

    607 RAF reported flying Hurricane IIB in India February to September 1943, converting to Spitfires.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dijon, France
    Posts
    512
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    Hi

    #45 ; Slt Gaston, Robert, Jean, Wilfrid GRASSET is always MIA and not survived as written.

    https://www.france-libre.net/robert-grasset/

    Bertrand

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lincoln, England
    Posts
    1,091
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 406 Times in 373 Posts

    Default Re: Hawker Hurricane anomalies

    Quote Originally Posted by GSinclair View Post
    HV538 6IAF 1130 hours 6-Mar-44 Landing Ratnap Bengal, failed to hold off, flew into deck bucking undercarriage and clipping propeller Cat AC F/O Nelkantan (IAF) safe

    HV538 mark IIB sent to India in August 1942, SOC 31-Aug-44

    3 IAF Hurricanes by November 1943, first IAF fighter bomber unit, the RAF notes few IIB were converted to fighter bomber as of mid 1944.

    4 IAF Hurricanes arriving June 1943, given 16 mark IIC in February 1944

    6 IAF Hurricanes from March 1943.

    7 IAF Flew Vengeances until at least June 1944, converted to Hurricanes in November 1944.

    607 RAF reported flying Hurricane IIB in India February to September 1943, converting to Spitfires.
    Geoff,
    Thanks for the squadron details. So it seems likely that HV538 ended up not being repaired after its Cat Ac incident with 6 Sqn on 31 Mar 44.
    Andy

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •