Basic genealogy - ROY STUART ANDREWS, ex-215 Sqn Liberator WAG

[Matt Poole]

Will a genealogy guru kindly help me find some basic info on the late ROY STUART ANDREWS of the Melbourne area in Australia? Roy died on 22 March 2011. I wish to flesh out the beginning and end of Roy’s memoir, which I hope to turn into a published hardcover book.

I’m mainly interested in learning:

a) if Roy stayed married to the woman he wed in December 1947 (née ESME BETH TRELOAR),
b) if Esme is the mother of Roy’s two offspring, Greg and Sue, and
c) what became of Esme. (I wonder if Esme predeceased Roy, or if they were divorced.)

Roy was a wireless operator/air gunner who flew 35 ops on 215 Squadron Liberators out of India, and post-war he went to school and became a dental surgeon in Melbourne.

Roy’s online obituary mentions nothing about a wife or wives. That’s a big part of the mystery. Here is the wording of his obituary, from the Melbourne, Australia Herald Sun newspaper:

ANDREWS, Roy Stuart
Date listed: 24/3/2011

ANDREWS. – Roy Stuart. Passed away peacefully Mar. 22, 2011. Respected and loving father of Greg and Sue and devoted grandfather (Guppy) of Amy, Rebecca, David, Hannah and Natalie. You meant the world to us all. Your love, integrity and humility were admired and will never be forgotten. PRIVATE FUNERAL.

I found Roy’s two offspring, Greg and Sue, alive and apparently well in Australia, but, though basically supportive of my plans, they have been next to impossible to get info out of. It has been ridiculously frustrating and sad that they continue to show little interest in their own father’s experiences, though they appear to have fond memories of a good man.

I’ve essentially given up with them, because it is so difficult to get them to even answer an email. And I’ve been very respectful with them and have explained that I am doing 99.999% of the work, at no cost to them, yet still I’ve had almost no cooperation.

So, from Roy’s obituary, I know first names but no surnames. As the son, Greg is “Andrews”, but I haven’t found evidence of Sue’s marriage, or if she ever married, so I don’t know her surname. Likewise, I have no idea of Roy’s grandchildren’s surnames, or if Greg or Sue is a parent. Using “Andrews” as the surname, I have not been able to find Sue or any of the grandchildren on Facebook.

I located Greg’s business on Facebook (GS Andrews Advisory, his business) and on the web, but, like I said, I can’t get anything much out of him.

(I have Twitter and Instagram issues; none of my tweets or Instagram messages seems to reach its intended recipient. There is a chance that I can discover Twitter and/or Instagram links, and that I can reach grandchildren via these routes.)

Roy wrote a wartime memoir and self-published it (softcover, tiny press run, basically typewritten, printed on only the front side of a two-page spread, little more than a glorified photocopy, and mainly just a hand out meant for friends, fellow veterans, and - who knows? - family), with no proofreading done and with many errors. However, it is of great value and covers Liberator operations later in the war – something that would make for worthwhile material in a published book. And so, I want to use Roy’s own raw memoir as the basis of a proper book, just as I did with ex-159 Squadron wireless op/air gunner Bill Kirkness DFM. In late 2017, Bill’s unpublished, typewritten memoir, with my editing and expanding, came out as a hardcover book entitled “RAF LIBERATORS OVER BURMA”, subtitled “FLYING WITH 159 SQUADRON”.

I made great progress on this Andrews writing project – until the pandemic hit and I shelved it for a while. “A while” turned into more than two years, as I concentrated on/was distracted by other projects. I would like to continue with the Andrews project in the months to come.

I have found that Roy Stuart Andrews’ marriage to ESME BETH TRELOAR was announced in the 10 December 1947 issue of The Argus newspaper in Melbourne.

However, I have not been able to find anything more about the marriage, the births of Roy’s one son and one daughter, Esme's fate, or if there was a divorce or a second wife.

I do have a copy of a letter Roy wrote on 16 January 1998 to Wally Frazer, who had piloted Liberators on 215 Sqn and who wrote the excellent memoir, “A TREPID AVIATOR”. In this letter, Roy wrote,

“I nearly drove my wife nutty saying, it’s really great. It’s just how it was” – referring to his reading of Wally’s memoir. Continuing, Roy wrote, “You see, like most families, they can’t be bothered to read all that old airforce stuff. My own son is like that. . .I found that my children knew nothing about me until they were about 10 years old.”

Well, I have certainly found out that Roy’s offspring, to this day, have very little interest in their old man’s wartime career. Too bad for them!

Can anyone help with uncovering basic family info? The fact that Esme is not mentioned in the obituary seems telltale, but I can’t draw an accurate conclusion. From the little I know of Roy (including brief correspondence with him, when I purchased his memoir from him), I am guessing that he would not have been the type to get divorced, but certainly there are accessible websites or databases which have some of the tidbits I seek.

I did find Roy’s probate records in the Victoria Public Records Office. Someone had promised me a peek at the file but never got around to it before moving to Adelaide. Maybe I’ll order a copy…unless someone can save the time and expense by providing some basic info.

I don’t have an Ancestry.com account. Perhaps there is obvious info to be found there.

Cheers and thanks,

Matt

[Matt Poole]

Fortunately, I received some excellent help elsewhere. There are still mysteries, but I'm keeping any family details very simple and purely factual, with no speculation.

[wwrsimon]

Matt

Not that much help, but he's on a family tree on ancestry that records that he was divorced between '1972-1977' and married '1972-1977'.

The names in the respective divorce and marriage are kept private.

There is also a family tree for a Esme Florence Treloar (middle name Florence, not Beth?), b. August 6th 1918, d. December 11th 1998, recorded as married Roy Stuart Andrews in 1947, no further details.

As is sometimes the case with family trees on ancestry, the information may need corroborating.

Regards

Simon

[paulmcmillan]

TRELOAR, Florence Esme

TRELOAR. - Florence Esme on Dec. 11, 1998 at home. In her 91st year Much loved by Judith and Dean; Beverley, Michael and Judy; and Geoffrey. Loved Nana of Rowan and Carol, Jenny and Gary, Annie, Richard and Sonja, Tiffany, Atlanta, Warwick and Brodie and her great grandchildren. A fine lady who fought her last illness with courage and dignity. Now at rest

Date listed: 12/12/1998

Publication: Herald Sun

I am 100 % sure this NOT THE same woman - I think maybe family Tree creator have been confused by similar names - This lady got a divorce from Arthur
Charles Caddy Treloar in Dec 1952

[paulmcmillan]

The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) Wed 10 Dec 1947 PrevissueNext issue
Browse issues
Page 14
Family Notices

PHOTO

MRS ROYE ANDREWS after her
marriage at Wesley Church.
She was Miss Esme Treloar.

Parents Mr. and Mrs. O. Treloar, Ascot Vale,

Home Newspapers & Gazettes Browse The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) Tue 9 Dec 1947
Page 5
PEOPLE and PARTIES

WESLEY CHURCH has been
chosen by Miss Esme Treloar
for her marriage to-dav with
Mr. Roye Andrews. The bride
elect, who is the daughter of
Mr. and Mrs. A. Ormond Treloar, Ascot Vale will have her
sister, Mrs. Raymond Chapman
(formerly Verna Treloar) as matron of honor. Her fiance, who
is the older son of Mr. and Mrs.
A A. Andrews, Hong Kong, was
formerly in the R.A.A.F., and
Is now studying dentistry at Melbourne University. A former
R.A.A.F. colleague, Mr. Frank
Kelly, of Adelaide, will be best
man. Miss Treloar was a member of the Borovansky ballet
during one of its Melbourne seasons,
and her sister, Verna, before her
marriage, played a number of
leading parts with the National
Theatre, and was a finalist In
the 1945 Miss Australia quest.

[paulmcmillan]

They are on a 1972 Diamond Valley Templestowe Electoral Roll together and she is Esme Bertha Andrews
Son also living with them. Pm me if you want his full names

The divorced bit 1972 to 1977 is because he is no longer living at address in 1977

Esme's sisters death in 1974 reveals a 3rd child of Esme Dianne - Roy is not mentioned in the notice

[paulmcmillan]

1980 Electrol Roll has Janet Mary Andrews living at the same address as Roy - Dental Nurse!!!!!!

[Matt Poole]

Thanks to Paul and Simon for following up. Paul, I have sent you a PM...AND seconds after I sent it, I checked my email. From Andy Wright in Australia came a digital copy of Roy's probate records, and it clears up most things, but not when (if) Esme died...or if Janet, a woman he married in 1976 or so, when he was 52, died before him. She must be the Janet mentioned in your last posting, Paul. Hmm...neither wife is mentioned in Roy's online obituary, so there must be more to the story. I've tweaked the end of the memoir to include just this tiny vague info:

Epilog

Roy Stuart Andrews, born in Hong Kong on 20 September 1924, died at the age of 86. His obituary, appearing in the 24 March 2011 edition of The Herald Sun newspaper in Melbourne, stated that he 'passed away peacefully Mar. 22, 2011.” His family concluded the obituary with heartfelt words of gratitude: 'You meant the world to us all. Your love, integrity and humility were admired and will never be forgotten.'

I won't mention any names or speculate about Roy's married life.

Cheers,

Matt