Who attacked Mosquito MM753 219 Sqn during the night 2-3 November 1944 ?

[Luc Vervoort]

Hi,

During the night 2/3 November 1944 Mosquito NF.30 MM753 of 219 Squadron had to make a belly landing at Melsbroek airfield (Belgium).
(See also http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...ighlight=MM753 )

The Daily Log of 2 TAF (Air 37/716) mentions :
1 a/c., 219 Sqdn, Pilot F/O.Reed, Nav. F/O. Bricker had contact in Antwerp area which proved friendly Stirling which fired from rear guns as fighter broke away. Fighter was damaged and made belly landing at B.58. Crew safe, a/c believed Cat E.

The crew of this Mosquito was F/O. Graeme Frederick RNZAF (402215, pilot) and F/O.Ralph Bricker RAF (VR) (146684, navigator). They returned to duty and claimed on 26/27 March 1945 a Ju188 and on 27/28 March 1945 a He177 (AIR 50/84/64). Both received a DFC (published in the Supplement of The London Gazette nr.37109 p.2848, dated 5 June 1945).

Has the Stirling or its unit been identified ?

Many thanks and best regards

Luc

[John Williams]

Hi Luc,

According to Middlebrook/Everett book Bomber Command War Diaries no Stirlings we’re operating that night, there were 37 RCM aircraft operating that night but I don’t recall any RCM Stirling aircraft being fitted for that role, I happy to be corrected though.


Cheers,

John.

[David Duxbury]

Would that not more likely be one of the "Special Duties" aircraft (= "Agents" being dropped in occupied Europe)? Also, I would query that this aircraft was "friendly!" Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation.

[John Williams]

Hi David,

No ‘Special Duties’ sorties on this night, so perhaps as you said a not so ‘friendly’ fire.

Cheers,

John.

[COL BRUGGY]

Hello,

A possibility (no more the that!):

No.199 Squadron Operations Record Book.
SUMMARY of EVENTS (F.540).
North Creake (Stirling III's)
Date: 11/44
2nd. (16.07-21.12)*
Six aircraft were detailed to form a MANDREL SCREEN and four to DISCHARGE WINDOW. One aircraft returned early with the rear turret and intercom unserviceable; one returned early with port outer engine unserviceable. One aircraft had two combats and claimed a JU.88 damaged.

* 2nd Tactical Air Force Vol.2/Shores & Thomas, p.335, quotes time as 23:23.

AIR 27/1172/47
199 Squadron ORB (F.540) Summary of Events.
1944 Nov 01-1944 Nov 30.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8392314
Image 1 of 3.

Later information.

You can read the Combat Reports, here:

AIR 50/231/33
F/Sgt Baker - 199 Sqn. 02 November 1944.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7460858

Stirling III LJ543:'J'. Capt: 178882 F/O (Pilot) Ronald GILBERT RAFVR (later A/F/L. DFC - 199 Sqn - LG:17/07/1945). Location of combat, 51.15N 05.35E - approx 5k S. of LOMMEL, Belgium.

I think I'm barking up the wrong tree! Time of Ju 88 combat logged at 19:37.

Col.

[Luc Vervoort]

John, David and Col.Bruggy,

Many thanks for your replies.

Bomber Command Report on Night operations for 2/3rd November 1944 (AIR 14/3412) mentions :
13 Stirlings and Liberators operated a Mandrel screen. 20 heavies dropped Window. 51 Mosquitos made intruder and Serrate patrols, destroying 4 Ju.88 and 2 Me.110, and damaging 1 Ju.88 and 1 Me.110. 12 aircraft made special investigation patrols. 1 Mosquito was despatched on a Met. Recce. these aircraft returned safely.

The orb of 219 Squadron (AIR 27/1361) doesn’t mention anything regarding this attack or crash landing at Melsbroek :
For 2/11/1944 is mentioned :
The crews returned from Lille, and 8 N.F.T.’s were carried out. At night, one crew did some local flying, and 6 patrols were carried out uneventfully, one crew landing at Manston on account of weather.
And for MM753 is mentioned as take off time 21h15 and landing at 23h30.

Following the information kindly supplied by Col Bruggy the orb of 199 Squadron (AIR 27/1172) was checked.Ten aircraft were detailed for a special mission, 6 to form a Mandrel Screen and 4 to discharge window. All returned to base before 21h15.

Did the RAF units in the U.K. and those on the Continent use the same time zone ?

Best regards

Luc

[Steve Smith]

You seem to forget No.38 Group !!

13 were operating on this night, five aircraft of No.196 were dropping around Amsterdam, while 8 aircraft of 298 Squadron were over Norway.

Chaz

.

[Luc Vervoort]

Chaz,

You’re correct I forgot No.38 Group.

Checked the Squadrons, equipped with Stirlings.

196 Squadron – ORB (AIR 27/1167) + Appendices (AIR 27/1168) + Form F
Form 540
Operations : 4 crews successful out of 5.
Form 541
LJ928 (t/o 21h35, landing 00h35) target Vlotho, between Bielefeld and Hannover
LK505 (t/o 21h40, landing 00h30) target Noorden, between Rotterdam and Amsterdam
LJ998 (t/o 21h40, landing 00h40) target Nieuw-Beijerland, between Antwerp and Rotterdam
LK557 (t/o 21h45, landing 00h40) target Noordbeemster , north of Amsterdam
LK201 (t/o 21h05, landing 01h15) target Aalsum, west of Groningen
Appendices and Form F (digital copies in AIR50)
No information found

295 Squadron – ORB (AIR 27/1644) + Appendices (AIR 27/2583) + Form F
Form 540
8 aircraft took off to supply Norwegian resistance.
Form 541
The supply of the Norwegian resistance mission mentions as date 1/2nd Nov. Nothing about an encounter with aircraft is mentioned.
Form F (digital copies AIR50)
No information found

299 Squadron – ORB (AIR 27/1654) + Appendices (AIR 27/2586) + Form F
Form 540
Night flying consisted of 5 aircraft on Astro cross countries (F/Lt. Rees F/O.Beresford F/O Keogh F/Lt Turnbull). Circuits and bumps done by F/O Harmer, F/O Hogg, F/O Hardwick, F/Sgt.Clarke.
Form 541 + Appendices + Form F
No information found

570 Squadron – ORB (AIR 27/2041) + Form F
Form 540
Mentions Night cross country flight and local night towing
Form 541 + Form F (digital copies AIR50)
No information found

Conclusion :
It is possible that the Mosquito was attacked by a Stirling of 196 Squadron. The distance from Keevil, UK to Antwerp is approx. 452 km and with an average airspeed of the Stirling approx.1,5 hours are required to reach Antwerp. If the aircraft took off at approx.21h40 it could be at approx. 23h10 in the Antwerp area.

Best regards

Luc