"Establishment" definition and usage

[Steve Brew]

Gentlemen, many thanks for the above details, which are most appreciated.

Thanks for the link to the AHB files, Ross, which is a resource I was not aware of. There are numerous documents of significant interest in that collection:

https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...atic-studies1/
https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...n-narratives1/

Manning Plans and Policy was of particular interest: https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...ns-and-policy/

Nonetheless, I'm still struggling to find out what the Establishment was for a Fighter Squadron (1, 2 & 3 Flights) in the interwar years, particularly the 1920s. I presume, Ross, that the TNA file you refer to is the holy grail?

Many thanks, gents, another interesting discussion that revealed a number of new sources.

Thanks
Steve

[Don Clark]

Interesting to note that both
Air Defence of Great Britain Vol I Growth of Fighter Command June 1936 t June 1940
and
The Expansion of the RAF 1934-1939
give some attention to 1922 onwards history, but neither gives the sort of detail sought.
Notably, both and esp the latter, use Establishment as an overall term, whether for total number of Squadrons or of aircraft (both in total and by Sqn) -as well as aircraft equipment IE and IR.

This is pretty much it on 1920s Sqn detail, with a range of "establishment from 12 to 15 or 18 machines per squadron":
which, and why, no mention, also no mention of the Sqn personnel establishment to operate/maintain same.

The Expansion of the RAF 1934-1939 p6
Sir Hugh Trenchard revised his proposals a little later and.
submitted the resut in a further note to the Committee of Imperial
Defence in July, 1922. In this he recommended the addition of 20
squadrons to the three which then existed for Home Defence or would
shortly be available (Nos. 25, 56 and 100). Of the additional 20, he
proposed that 15 should be regular and 5 Auixiliary Air Force squadrons.
The 23 squadrons, with the addition of machines which could be drawn from
other sources on emergency, would make a total of 501 machines "available
to cope with such enemy air forces as might attack us". (1)

(1) In a further note of August, 1922, Sir H. Trenchard explained more
fully how the figure of 501 was obtained. It was rather a hotch-
potch; it was made up of ( 1) 266 machines in the 23 Home Defence
sqµadrons; (2) 36 machines in three Reserve squadrons; (3) 64 to be
obtained from training establishments; (4) 60 more from the expansion
of establishment from 12 to 15 or 18 machines per squadron; and (5)
f'inally, a "credit" of 25 per cent on the 302 machines at (1) and
(2) in respect of the Immediate Reserve held for them, say 75 further
machines. (The French squadrons had 110 corresponding Immediate
Reserve.) (C.I.D. 115 A, August, 1922).

Manning Plans and Policy also has brief history, but gives only aggregate RAF establishment numbers re personnel & no of Squadron thoughout.

Lastly, as an example at Unit level, the 211 Squadron Ops Record Book Form 540 gives no note on strength/establishment on formation (on re-forming, Jun 37).
A roll of Pilots is given at year end, 37 & 38 (and to Sep 39), but pilot nos only: no way of winnowing total aircrew (let alone ground personnel) from that...
...then, in March 1940, remarks
"EL DABA 18/3/40 [...] The new war establishment was received today which increases the strength of the Squadron to 361 Officers and airmen."

Overall, perhaps enquiry to AHB or RAF Museum might be useful, though Ross or others may have more on the 1920s Sqn establishment, equipment, and Flights detail wanted.

[Steve Brew]

Thanks Don

Yes, I did find that bit, thanks, but it is still unclear as to what type of unit "12 to 15 or 18 machines per squadron" pertains to and how many Flights. e.g. my initial 'Flight' on 41 Sqn in 1923 had three pilots, grew to 12 pilots by the end of the year, then postings out reduced the number to nine. How many aircraft should the Establishment have been given a 'Flight' of three to 12 pilots?

According to the 41 Squadron ORB, the Squadron was re-formed on 1 April 1923 with an Establishment of one Flight of Snipes. In reality, however, aircraft numbers six months after re-formation totalled three Snipes, three Avro 504Ks and one DH9a! Not quite what I would imagine a Flight of Snipes to look like... Hence my query as to what numbers pertained to a fighter squadron's Establishment of one, two and three Flights.

Not a big deal in the scheme of things, really, but I'm seeking to draw a comparison between intent and reality.

Hopefully the answer is out there somewhere, and just maybe in that TNA file Ross referred to.

Cheers
Steve

[Don Clark]

Cheers, Steve. Agree, still unclear from the Narrative.

Sorry, quite missed Ross's link to the AIR 2/249/S23157 Establishments and strength file!
Agree, worth following. If you need a researcher at TNA, happy to offer a reliable suggestion.

Fascinating, Snipes vs The Rest: Avros for training perhaps? DH9A for hack + moving stuff?
How did "Estab" cater for them? Leaving IE/IR for the Snipes - their operational equipt?

By the by, in post 1 you noted
"Immediate Reserve (or I.R.) were those with technical or mechanical issues, in maintenance, or having combat damage repaired on-site that were not released for ops."
Not sure if that was the case in the 20s, but on a medium bomber Sqn ME 1938-1940, the IR aircraft could be rostered on ops v rapidly.
Possibly as a/craft recd on unit ex Stores but awaiting full equipment on Squadron - which did happen (Hind Radios in 1938, eg). Still, I guess that comes under Maintenance...

Hope the file search pays off. My replies often look to both OP plus other future readers/questions...
so here, it'd be interesting to hear back from you on the Flight estab/eqpt answer when/if you find it.

[Steve Brew]

Thanks very much Don; will do.

Steve

[Steve Brew]

Gents, an update on the above

You may (or may not?! :-)) be interested to learn that I have just found in the 43 Squadron ORB (TNA AIR 27/440) that at its re-formation on 1 July 1925, its Establishment was "that of a normal single seater fighter squadron viz. three Flights, 12 initial equipment and six immediate reserve aircraft".

Regards
Steve

[Don Clark]

Indeed interesting Steve.

Confirms again the variation in detail recorded in their Operations Record Book* from Squadron to Squadron (and indeed other Units) in peace or war.

While partly reflecting the demands of the day, it's been said before that many an officer toiling in the Adj Office for some period found these paper tasks irksome, as little more than bumf.

And in this case, it being their knowledge in common and a summary, the entry records only the bare detail (12 IE +6 IR) which in full is useful in confirming usage, but also - as expected - shedding no light at all on your later question: was that 12 Siskins down the Flights and 6 Siskins in the Shed, or did it cover all the aircraft on hand (ie incl any 504 Ks or DH9As on hand).

Not only interesting now, but who knows when a thread like this may help someone else later...

* Another example of poss use: the title of this RAF official record, printed as the head of each sheet, is as noted:
Operations Record Book eg, 1937
But today (though not in this thread!) as often seen misquoted as
"Operational Record Book" - no such beast.

[Steve Brew]

Thanks Don

I agree with your statement, "Not only interesting now, but who knows when a thread like this may help someone else later..." as this site is often crawled by Google and recording facts and stats here will always be locatable by others searching at a later date.

It is also apparent from records of 41 Sqn's aircraft that the unit did not have enough IR throughout the 1924-27 period, even if it was partially made up of hacks (504Ks and the odd Snipe). In their case, though, I think it may have had to do with the fact that they were the launch squadron for the Siskin III, but only a limited number were made (and only two front line units were equipped with the Mark) before they were replaced with more powerful/better Mark IIIA's from March 1927.

That said, it is only through knowing what the Establishment should have been that it is even possible to establish the fact that 41 Squadron was under-equipped. That's why I like these seemingly unimportant (on face value) little facts; they always seem to lead to something else!


I know we have an abbreviations thread, but I sometimes wonder if an alphabetical Definitions wiki-type thread/page/section would also be a useful tool on this website, too. It would certainly state definitively what things like 'ORB', 'IE' and 'IR' stand for, and could potentially include examples and discussion [Jagan?].

Regards
Steve

[David Duxbury]

Thought it might be of service to point out that the establishment of a squadron (or any unit or formation including headquarters), apart from aircraft, could also include their personnel establishment (usually a rather large table showing numbers of officers and airmen (and airwomen in some circumstances), officers by rank and Branch, and non-commissioned by rank (or lack thereof) and trade, plus trade group. Then there was their MT establishment, also Marine Craft if applicable, office equipment, and anything else of a physical nature that should be carried on unit strength such as all types of tools, aircraft handling equipment, etc., even types of APs, and other official publications considered necessary for the operation of the unit (although latter may have been a simple list of the publications). However, the aircraft establishment is the one usually thought of when that word is used. Most squadrons equipped with certain aircraft types were likely to have very similar aircraft establishments, but there were sometimes exceptions to this general assumption, with larger, or smaller numbers of aircraft allotted, depending on their location, time period, and exact role. Some squadrons in remote locations and distant from sources of replacement aircraft were sometimes issued with a few additional aircraft as back-up, and could be listed as SR (Stored Reserve).

[Steve Brew]

Thanks for the insights and additional information, David.