TNA FOI Proof of death for Service Records

[Ross_McNeill]

A few years off for RAF at the moment - they are starting with a transfer of Army Service Records.

To get access to a closed Service Record at the TNA you need to do an application by FOI.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...-request-step1

The rules are still in early stages and not all written down for applicants.

In general with a proof of death - similar to MoD there is a limit of more than 25 years deceased.

Proof of death is slightly wider than MoD but TNA does not have ability to confirm death in service and so requires evidence but is not clear on the TNA form what is needed.

Just had an email reply to a question I posed to the team at the TNA on acceptable proof of death to be included on FOI applications.

I asked about proof of death in service and specifically if the link to the CWGC page for an individual would be acceptable.

"Thank you for your email.

We would accept a link to The Commonwealth War Graves Commission as valid proof of death.

We require documentary proof of death. Other formats we would accept include, a death certificate, an entry into an official history, or a published obituary.

I hope this helps to answer your query."

So that clears that issue up - not quite the same as MoD requirement but in my mind the TNA request very workable.

Ross

[PeteS]

It's nice to see a more use-able future system
cheers
PeteS

[jonny]

Certainly a step forward. Surely they will also accept an entry in the Armed Forces Memorial too?

Anyway, a member of staff at TNA told me on Saturday, that they have only completed a small test sample from the REME thus far. He also advised me to continue to apply to RAF Disclosures for SRs, and apart from the comment 'it will take a good few years,' couldn't advise on a time scale for any of the tri-service records being available.

[Ross_McNeill]

Not sure it's a step forward - the initial experience of bods that have applied to TNA is not good with nearly all applications being returned Closed.

My belief was that no consideration was being given to deceased status and that was confirmed with the appearance of FOI form that was not available to the initial enquiry.

I think that the TNA will experience teething troubles in implementing systems - much as MoD had several years ago and that will cause vented social media anger.

My fear is that the TNA will take the view that it's too much trouble and kick the can down the road until the 115 years since birth when they can transfer as an Open record to third party Ancestry/

Ross

[paulmcmillan]

TNA Did Not Accept UK Probate when I asked about a Closed FOI POW Record - I suppose they could have claimed it was someone else but the name was so unique and age was correct I could not understand why they refused

[Ross_McNeill]

Possibly developing procedures Paul and not engaging to understand the response.

This new procedure is from the MoDPersonnelRecords team that specifically only deals with the service record transfer from MoD to TNA. You have to navigate round the procedures they have in place on Closed service records.

Up until last month only a few had been transferred (nearly all REME and between the wars service) all initially Closed. The team is going through as a first pass to Open using the most basic of all the tests eg is today more than 115 years since the date of birth of the Service Person. If so it's an easy task to set as Open and include in the batch that will be sent to Ancestry for shared display.

Checks the basic procedure, gets all stakeholders up to speed on the record set and most important for the TNA honours the commercial terms (I have no detail of agreement, just supposition) of transfer to third party.

As a side gig to this work TNA is now deviating from their "Closed until 116 years" stance and starting to look at review under FOI for individual record cases. Yes there is a fee for that and I suspect TNA has vastly underestimated the resource to satisfy this public review route but until they offer it they do not know the demand.

I can only applaud this action from the TNA and try to understand and work within it.

Case in point was the CWGC proof of death. Not something considered or required by MoD as they have other means of proof. TNA could have reverted to Death Certificate only but I suggested CWGC register link as something they could verify for an application - confirms service number with record they are reviewing and has little or no cost implication for TNA.

My feeling is that we need to feed back and suggest to TNA and see what desire to change is in the team.

A third party resource such as the RAF Commands linked Databases could become another acceptable proof for RAF Service Records/PoW records/Casualty when more than the present RAF Boy Entrant service records are released.

You can rage against the system, work with the system or be a force for change - choice for each individual.

Ross