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Thread: WW2 route Stockholm to Leuchars

  1. #21
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    Not all the flights between Leuchars and Sweden made it unharmed.

    4/4-43 Lockeed 18 G-AGEJ of BOAC piloted by Erik Engness, Co-pilot Oddvar Wenger, Wop Harald Pillgram Wilhelmsen and 5 pax was shot down by a Ju 88 of 10/NJG 3 piloted by Leutnant Werner Speidel at 04:40 330-340 degree 53 kilometers off Skagen (Sea of Skagerak between Skagen and Larvik)
    Sources: Helme / Theo Boiten / Kriegstagesbuch Kommandant Nordjütland

    23/4-43 Mosquito G-AGFV of BOAC with the crew of Pilot Gilbert Rae and Navigator James Payne.
    belly landed at Barkaby 15:45 after having been attacked at 14:10 by Uffz Kienle of I/JG11.
    It was recognised by Luftwaffe as a claim.
    Sources: JG1/11/Helme/ The swedish book ”Kurirflyg”

    27/8-43 See http://www.flensted.eu.com/19430088.shtml

    22/10-43 DC 3 SE-BAG of ABA was claimed by blt Werner Speidel fra 10/NJG 3 i Ju 88 and crashed near the Swedish island of Haallo. Crew was Pilot Henrik Schollin, 2. pilot Per Ove Darin, Engineer Stig Louis Grupp, Wop Sigvard Olof Holmbäck and 10 passengers. 2 pasengers survived.
    Sources: Helme/ The swedish book ”Kurirflyg”
    Best regards
    Soren Flensted
    WWW.Flensted.EU.Com

  2. #22
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    Graham,

    Not quite sure of the logic - the further north one goes in summer the longer the days (almost 24 hour daylight at midsummer). I would have thought the flights mostly took place at night to minimise the risk of detection.

    Assuming my man's Liberator cruised at 215 mph, the flight via Oslo, but would have taken about 3.75 hours; but 5.5 hours via the route just south of Alesund. The latter fits with his diary record of a 6.30 pm take off and 1130 pm arrival.

    My thanks for all the contributions.

    Brian

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyffe View Post
    Graham,

    Not quite sure of the logic - the further north one goes in summer the longer the days (almost 24 hour daylight at midsummer). I would have thought the flights mostly took place at night to minimise the risk of detection.

    Assuming my man's Liberator cruised at 215 mph, the flight via Oslo, but would have taken about 3.75 hours; but 5.5 hours via the route just south of Alesund. The latter fits with his diary record of a 6.30 pm take off and 1130 pm arrival.

    My thanks for all the contributions.

    Brian
    I can't see the logic of flying over Norway and then turning south when the route over the sea is a straight line. As you say light increases which is why the N route to Russia was winter only. The book makes no reference to overflying Norway after the German invasion.

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    Whilst I fully accept I do not know the fine details of all this, I would have thought the reason for the northern route was reasonably logical. Whilst it would certainly be sensible to fly what was effectively a direct straight-line route between the UK and Sweden in a fast, high-lying, aircraft such as a Mosquito, by contrast the Liberator was slow and had a lower maximum altitude, which made it far more vulnerable to interception over the relatively well defended southern Norway.

    Once clear of the Norwegian coast on the northern route the aircraft's track would have taken it increasing further from the Norwegian coast.

    My atlas tells me that the section of the route Stockholm - Alesund route was mostly over mountainous terrain where there would have been few defences/airfields, thus making it a safer option.

    Neither route would be without danger, but the northern one would have minimised the risk of interception of a 'lumbering' bomber.

    Brian

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    Default BOAC Mosquito flights

    Gentlemen,

    BOAC flew the Mosquito aircraft mainly during the summer months when the daylight period was very long. They withdrew the Mossies from operations during the winter months having the long night periods. The northern routes were longer and flown mainly during the winter months under protection of darkness by the slower B-24s, C-47s, Hudson's., etc.

    A researcher in Sweden sent me a Bar-Graph displaying months having increased Mosquito flights during the summer, and decreased flights during the winter.

    Norman Malayney
    Last edited by norman malayney; 16th December 2008 at 03:47.

  6. #26
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    Gentlemen,

    Much water has passed under the bridge since the last post on this thread, but I did contact the BA Museum as suggested by Dick at the very beginning. As a result I now have most of the pertinent details.

    1. On 25 February 1944 Consolidated Liberator III G-AGFO (ex-RAF FL915) departed Stockholm at 1715GMT and arrived Leuchars 2236GMT.

    2. The aircraft had been at Stockholm since 23 February awaiting a fuel pump.

    3. The cruising height is not known but was probably between 20,000 and 25,000ft.
    The crew would have been the Captain, First Officer, navigator, Radio Officer and Flight Engineer (total five)

    4. The route would have been northerly, up through Sweden to around 65degN then west across northern Norway to 8degE then SW for the long North Sea crossing down east of the Shetland islands, off the coat of Aberdeen to Leuchars, probably up to around 25,000ft.

    Nothing particularly earth moving in that, but it shows the aircraft took the most northern route available, and that it was flying at a considerable height.

    I take my hat off to those crews.

    Brian
    Last edited by Lyffe; 7th January 2009 at 14:06. Reason: spelling

  7. #27
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    Default 1941, Stockholm to Russia

    A long-dormant thread, but I'll try.

    In April of 1941, my father, having escaped occupied Holland, made it to Sweden, from where the British flew him east, to Velikie-Lukie, in Russia.

    I'd be terribly grateful if anyone had any info about flights to Russia, aircraft used, BOAC involvement, and so on.

    (Dad completed a 26 thousand mile journey to London, via Iraq, Iran, India, and by sea to Rio, New York, Halifax, and Liverpool. He went on to fly Seafires off FAA carriers.)

  8. #28
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    Welcome Culchie - and it's never too late on RAFCommands.

    Someone may come up with something definitive, but I suggest you contact the British Airways museum at
    ba.1.museum@ba.com .

    I've found the museum very helpful and my last post on this subject was based on its advice.

    Good hunting.

    Brian

  9. #29
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    Hey, Brian, thanks!

    I saw that link here and immediately fired off an email, so thanks for posting it. I'll be tickled if they dig up anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyffe View Post
    Welcome Culchie - and it's never too late on RAFCommands.

    Someone may come up with something definitive, but I suggest you contact the British Airways museum at
    ba.1.museum@ba.com .

    I've found the museum very helpful and my last post on this subject was based on its advice.

    Good hunting.

    Brian

  10. #30
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    Default Re: WW2 route Stockholm to Leuchars

    Just to say I have the log book of the pilot for this flight (Liberator to Leuchars) pretty much the times and details you posted

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