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Thread: Air Crashes at Sea Civilian War Dead CWGC

  1. #11
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    For Campbell above, along with R H Bernays, the following two RAF men are on the Malta Memorial.

    W/O James W McStay, No unit on CWGC but GRO RAF List him with "MED COMM SQDN"
    F/O Derrick Hargreaves, CWGC lists him with 55 Sqdn but the GRO RAF lists him with no unit!

    I'm sure these are listed in the book "Though With out Anger."
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  2. #12
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    Dennis & Allan
    Thank you .I had a feeling Glenn Miller was in the USAAF .He had a uniform on in the film The Glenn Miller Story !

    Anne
    Last edited by aestorm; 27th August 2009 at 17:55.

  3. #13
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    Default Glenn Miller

    Quote Originally Posted by aestorm View Post
    Dennis & Allan
    Thank you .I had a feeling Glenn Miller was in the USAAF. He had a uniform on in the film The Glenn Miller Story !

    Anne
    Hi Anne

    A great film - I am always "in the mood" to help - I have always been a Glenn Miller fan - he was a major in the USAAF, this is from the wikipedia site - so he won't be on the CWGC site as he was a member of the US forces

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Miller

    On December 15, 1944, Miller was to fly from the United Kingdom to Paris, France, to play for the soldiers who had recently liberated Paris. His plane (a single-engined UC-64 Norseman, USAAF serial 44-70285) departed from RAF Twinwood Farm in Clapham, Bedfordshire and disappeared while flying over the English Channel. No trace of the aircrew, passengers or plane has ever been found. Miller's status is missing in action.

    There are three main theories about what happened to Miller's plane, including the suggestion that he might have been hit by Royal Air Force bombs after an abortive raid on Siegen, Germany. One hundred and thirty-eight Lancaster bombers, short on fuel, jettisoned approximately 100,000 incendiaries in a designated area before landing. The logbooks of Royal Air Force navigator Fred Shaw recorded that he saw a small, single-engined monoplane spiraling out of control and crashing into the water. However, a second source, while acknowledging the possibility, cites other RAF crew members flying the same mission who stated that the drop area was in the North Sea.

    In a book published in 2006, Clarence B. Wolfe, a gunner with Battery D, 134th AAA Battalion, in Folkestone, England, claims that his battery shot down Miller's plane. However, Wolfe's account has been disputed.

    Another book by Lt. Col. Huton Downs, a former member of Dwight D. Eisenhower's personal staff, argues that the U.S. government covered up Miller's death. Downs suggested that Miller, who spoke German, had been enlisted by Eisenhower to covertly attempt to convince some German officers to end the war early. The book goes on to suggest that Miller was captured and killed in a Paris brothel, and his death covered up to save the government embarrassment. However the Publishers' Weekly review talks of "breathlessly written suppositions".

    When Glenn Miller went missing, he left behind his wife, the former Helen Burger, originally from Boulder, Colorado, and the two children they adopted in 1943 and 1944, Steven and Jonnie. Helen Miller accepted the Bronze Star medal for Glenn Miller in February of 1945.

    I would have thought that his flight plan could have been cross-referenced with the known designated area to dump bombs by now?

    cheers

    Allan
    Allan Hillman

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    Thanks Allan
    I'm digressing from Linzee's original post .The Glenn Miller film had the song "Ha Ha ha you & me, little brown jug how I love thee" in it .Something I remember from seeing the film in the late 1950s or early 1960s

    I only discovered Leslie Howard films in my late teens in the early 1960s & thought he was lovely !
    It was only much much later that I learnt about his death.

    The Duke of Kent [George V's youngest son] was killed in a Sunderland ?? crash in Scotland WW2. Was he regarded as a civilian or was he in uniform ?

    Anne
    Last edited by aestorm; 28th August 2009 at 16:32.

  5. #15
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    Default Duke of Kent / Leslie Howard

    Hi Anne

    The Duke of Kent was in an official capacity in the RAF - see below - plenty of theories for the crash - one was that he was flying the plane himself

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_George,_Duke_of_Kent

    Leslie Howard played R J Mitchell in "First of the Few" - which I have on DVD.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_of_the_Few

    cheers

    Allan
    Allan Hillman

  6. #16
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    Allan
    The book "Missing -Believed Killed" by Roy Conyers Nesbit has a 31 page chapter on the Duke's flight & others, such as Glenn Miller.

    Anne
    Last edited by aestorm; 29th August 2009 at 16:04.

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    Default Civilian losses night of 31/10/42-1/11/42

    Hi guys & gals

    The following were all aboard the ill-fated Liberator AL516 of 511 Squadron that crashed at Gibraltar en route from Malta on the night of 31 October/1 November 1942. In addition to 10 civilans (the other two were injured) there were 24 airmen including the crew of six, all of whom survived (two injured including the captain Flt Lt R. Walton). Six tour-expired fighter pilots lost their lives and several of the others were injured, including the legendary Plt Off Screwball Beurling DSO DFC DFM (the top-scoring Malta ace)

    ASTON, ISABELLA JOSEPHINE, I J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 Unknown
    ASTON, SIMON, S Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 2
    CHASE, EDNA PATRICIA, E P Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 27
    CHASE, THOMAS, T Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 Unknown
    HUCKLEBRIDGE, MABEL, M Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 30
    ROWE, EDWARD JAMES, E J Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 40
    ROWE, HANNAH EUNICE, H E Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 44
    SHELDON, ELIZABETH PRISCILLA, E P Civilian * Civilian War Dead 31/10/42 42

    Of the above, Isabella Aston was the Maltese wife of a FAA pilot, and Simon was their baby son; Thomas Chase was the baby son of Edna Chase.

    The incident is covered in my books - 'Spitfires over Malta' and the older 'Malta: The Spitfire Year'

    Hope this helps

    Brian (PS I have a new book on Screwball Beurling coming out very soon!!)
    Last edited by brian; 29th August 2009 at 10:35.

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    Default Bernays & Campbell - 23-1-45

    Hello All,

    23-1-1945
    Mediterranean & Middle East Communication Sqn.
    Beech Expediter II HB271

    Missing during flight in icing conditions, between Rome and Brindisi. (Carrying a parliamentary team visiting troops in the Med.).

    174116 F/O (Pilot) Derrik HARGREAVES RAFVR + (Malta Memorial. Panel 18, Column 1)
    1385244 W/O James Warden McSTAY RAFVR + (Malta Memorial. Panel 18, Column 1)
    136061 Lt Robert Hamilton BERNAYS RE + (M.P. - Bristol [North], since 1931).
    (Commemorated on the Cassino Memorial, Panel 3).
    Civilian: John Dermot CAMPBELL (Civilian War Dead) + (Deputy Lieutenant., M.P. - Co. Antrim, since 1943)

    All the above is provisional, and needing confirmation.

    Corrections/Additions welcome.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 17th September 2009 at 08:21. Reason: minor correction

  9. #19
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    Default G-AEUH/Nevill VINTCENT

    Hello All,

    Vintcent, not on board G-AEUH.

    29-1-1942
    1 OADU
    Hudson III AM946

    Missing on flight between Portreath and Gibraltar.

    (In Alpha order)

    951745 F/Sgt John Albert BOLLE RAFVR +
    89331 F/O Derek John GEE RAFVR +
    625018 F/Sgt Davy John PITCHER RAF +
    Civilian: Nevill VINTCENT OBE,DFC + (Civilian War Dead)

    Bolle,Gee & Pitcher commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial.

    Subject to confirmation. Corrections/Additions welcome.

    Col.

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    Default D M Gordon - 31-7-1940

    Hello All,

    Appendix 4.

    Losses of Blenheim night-fighters.

    31-7-1940
    No.25 Sqn.
    Blenheim IF L1408

    Failed to return from conducting AI trials over Bristol Channel, collided with L6722 (below).

    Sgt J Thompson +
    AC2 E Toy +
    Mr D Gordon +
    (Gordon was a radar engineer from Martlesham Heath where L1408 was based).

    31-7-1940
    No.29 Sqn.
    Blenheim IF L6722

    Failed to return from conducting AI trials over Bristol Channel, collided with L1408 (above).

    Sgt E Waite +
    Sgt C Richardson +
    LAC T Ward (from 32 MU) +

    See:
    The Bristol Blenheim:A Complete History.
    Warner,Graham
    Manchester:Crecy,2002 (1st ed.)
    p.244

    Check 2nd edition for updates.

    Col.
    Last edited by COL BRUGGY; 30th August 2009 at 03:17. Reason: minor correction

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