430113 - Unaccounted airmen - 13-1-1943

**Henk Welting** · 24th February 2010, 17:42

F/O Lewin H. ('Bunny') CURPHEY - RCAF J/7769 of 112 Sqn (Hamraiet, Libya) baled out over enemy territory and was not heard from again. His name commemorated on Column 271 of the Alamein Memorial. Looking for the aircraft serial; 112 Sqn lost this day Mk.I AK784, Mk.III FR214 and Mk.III FR320.
Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.

**Buz** · 25th February 2010, 00:29

Henk

Now that's unfair......the messenger is about to be shot....lol

Ok to see what others have out there I won't explain this one, but the serial number is FR195 a Kittyhawk III (over to the MU researchers who hopefully have a little more for me please).

The other serials you mention are as follows.

AK784 - Prob a SAAF unit or Training unit loss, yet to find it, but I will
FR214 - FLGOFF R.C.Sayle
FR320 - SGT D.S.Watson

Two other aircraft were badly shot up for 112Sqdn on the same sortie.

Buz

**Buz** · 27th February 2010, 12:14

Henk

Additional data for you, this aircraft (Fr195) along with the other two serials mentioned were lost on a Bomber Escort sortie. A Formation of 12 Aircraft from 112Sqdn along with aircraft from the 57FG (who provided Top and close escort with 112Sqdn as Medium cover), escorted 18 Boston’s of 21Sqdn who were to attack targets near the Churgia Road and LG.

Further to this my last post was supposed to hopefully get a discussion going about the serial number of this aircraft but alas that hasn't happened. I thought I would add some more info and see if we can get something rolling with idea’s etc on why this aircraft and others like it existed and if this was an isolated incident.

Kittyhawk III FR195 shouldn’t exist according to AB and the RAF Form78’s, however it seems to have. The serial FR195 was actually a RAF Mitchell serial, and from my research this aircraft also existed, so now we have two aircraft with the same serial number in RAF service……a once off you say, but alas not.

We also have FR196, FR197 and prob FR198 (all are also Mitchell III serials). Of these I have seen ORB entries (not just one or two but large numbers) for these aircraft, one of these aircraft, FR196, was used by 450Sqdn on 2 separate occasions where the aircraft left the Unit only to return later. I also have Logbook entries, Maintenance officer records and also seen a Picture or two of these aircraft. So I’m pretty happy that these aircraft did indeed exist. I have no reason for these aircraft having already having these serials painted on them, although most early Kittyhawk III’s did have their serials painted on in the US, as there is no indication of any aircraft that could meet these serials in the aircraft histories.

Has anyone any idea why this would have happened, or if this is an isolated case, or there are more cases such as this around?

**Bill Walker** · 27th February 2010, 15:38

Don't have the references right in front of me, but from memory there were a few cases of RAF serials being incorrectly applied in the US. Some were not corrected until after delivery to the RAF or RCAF, so what we see here seems very possible to me.

**Henk Welting** · 27th February 2010, 17:30

Thanks Buz for this excellent info on the Kittyhawks. I remember having read some time ago about discrepancies of Kittyhawks serial numbers flying with the RCAF. Numbers were given byond the contracted batch numbers.
Regards,
Henk.

**Henk Welting** · 27th February 2010, 17:38

Buz,
Additional question on serials FR214 and FR320:
Did F/O R.C. SAYLE escape uninjured ?
Was Sgt D.S. WATSON taken into captivity ? I've a Watson with svcnr 516585 in Camp 344 under PoW-number 27398.
Regards,
Henk.

**David Duxbury** · 27th February 2010, 23:31

Nothing to do with P-40 Kittyhawks to RAF, but some of the earliest B-17 Fortresses delivered to the RAF (the original B-17Cs for 90 Sqdn) apparently were also marked up in USA with incorrect serials, which had to be changed (from my far then infallible memory) from AM to An prefixes as they also duplicated those in use on other types of aircraft.
David D

**Buz** · 28th February 2010, 11:57

Hi Bill

Concur with what you say however there are no known missing Kittyhawk III serials. I can understand if serials were incorrectly applied, but either later corrected or left, there was always a card to go with it or mention in Curtiss records (ala Kittyhawk I'a with the ET1000 type serials there are ET1000 cards and EV100 cards but these have no history on them as you would expect).

There are no Form 78's to go with these aircraft, nor in the Curtiss records are these aircraft identified as going to the RAF. On top of this, all aircraft slated or identified as having gone to the RAF on the US IRC's are accounted for.

Idea's anyone?

Buz

Originally Posted by Bill Walker

Don't have the references right in front of me, but from memory there were a few cases of RAF serials being incorrectly applied in the US. Some were not corrected until after delivery to the RAF or RCAF, so what we see here seems very possible to me.

**Henk Welting** · 28th February 2010, 14:12

What were the places of death registration for:

A - Died on active service:
LAC Samuel B. KIRKLAND - 1514925 - 210 Sqn (Pembroke Dock, Pembs).

B - Not found in Flight archives:
Sgt (WOp/Ag) Walter J. HAYWARD - 1211260, and
AC2 William A. LAMBERT - 1661091.

C - Killed on active service:
Sgt (Nav) Gregor S. McGREGOR - 1388869, and
F/O (Pilot u/t) Gerald J.T. SNOXELL - 126050.

D - Proposed aircraft losses:
Hudson I - N7226 - 1 (C)OTU - crashed in forced landing at night Beckfoot, near Ravenglass, Eskdale, Cumberland.
Spitfire II.A - P7910 - 52 OTU - crashed on landing Aston Down.
Tiger Moth II - T6499 - 15 EFTS - overshot landing at Burnfoot.
Anson I - DG830 - 14 (P)AFU - crashed in forced landing Thorpe-on-the-Hill, Lincs.
Horsa I (Glider) - DP518 - 9 MU - spun into ground Willihall Steel Works, Priorslee Oakengate, Shropshire.
Tiger Moth - BB755 - 15 EFTS - crashed on take-off Burnfoot.

Regards and thanks for your help.
Henk.