Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: F/L Norman EH Virigin 40961 - 13 Nov 1945

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,232
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default F/L Norman EH Virigin 40961 - 13 Nov 1945

    Can anyone tell me what unit this Spitfire pilot was with and how he died? (excuse typo in headline)

    VIRGIN, NORMAN ERNEST HAROLD
    Initials: N E H
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Flight Lieutenant
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force
    Age: 25
    Date of Death: 13/11/1945
    Service No: 40961
    David

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,651
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 52 Times in 48 Posts

    Default

    Death is registered at Barnstable district, Devon.

    His death is Died on Active service in the Flight Archvies listings, RAF Casualty Lists.

    if you trace him through the London Gazette, he appears to have transferred to the Reserve of Air Force officers in 1944. I wonder if he might have been wounded?
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,663
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    Interesting he is registered in Devon when he was also supposed to have been killed in a Warwick crash up in Scotland

    http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4748

    Errol's post (#3)

    A
    RAF Armoured Car Companies 1920-45 http://www.rafacciraq.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,232
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Dennis for that and Amrit for searching the old posts, which I hadn't thought to try...again.

    Still trying to connect this fellow with the AFDU in 1943. A F/L Virgin was listed as the witness to the crash of Beaufighter LZ289, so I am assuming he was the fighter pilot who was with them at the time.
    David

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,651
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 52 Times in 48 Posts

    Default

    In that old post D, Errol was quoting from Cummings book, and it was Cummings who was speculating on Virgin being a crew member, it was not Errol who was speculating. I had thought it was Errol who was speculating, I was in error.

    There are 24 RAF men dead with no unit listed on the 13-14 November 1945, the following being buried in UK.

    LAC C J Bond buried Wandsworth, No trade listed, not aircrew rank, registered I think in Swindon Wiltshire
    F/L J E Gilder (Pilot) memorised Wandsworth , registered Banbury Oxfordshire KOAS
    Sgt A G Greaves buried Kingsnorth Kent, no trade listed against him. Reg'd Folkestone Kent
    F/Sgt E J Marks, (WOP Air) buried Somerset, not identified Eng/Wal or Scotland.
    F/Lt D J Rowe (Pilot Instr) buried Kent in family town. reg'd Banbury Oxfordshire, see also Gilder above. KOAS
    W/Cdr D R Walker (Pilot) buried Surrey, Reg'd I think in Hendon Middlesex KOAS

    Note that none of the men mentioned so far on the Warwick have a trade listed against their names on CWGC.


    Sgt E J Marks is KOAS listed in the same list that the other airmen are reported as:
    MISSING, BELIEVED KILLED ON ACTIVE SERVICE, NOW PRESUMED KILLED ON ACTIVE SERVICE.—
    Flt, Sgt, D. F. Hamblett; W/O E B Lascelles; Fit. Sgt. K. O'Neill; F/O. P. F. Parsons; Flt. Sgt. F. S. Urquhart.

    Printed July 11th 1946.

    There are no RAAF. RCAF or RNZAF men in Europe listed for that November 1945 date.
    Last edited by dennis_burke; 15th March 2010 at 21:52. Reason: Removed last line, made no sense! 21:51, corrected my misinterpretaton of who was speculating what!
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,232
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Dick, the reference is a bit unclear. It says "and believed to be...". I will PM Errol to see if it explains more.

    There were two people recovered, one of whom died before being landed, according to the RNLI records Ross found. It's not clear if one of them was Virgin.

    So now the question is, what was he doing on a Warwick at an OTU? Is it possible I have another F/L Virgin, who I am assuming was a Spitfire pilot, and another who was air crew in a bomber?
    David

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,651
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 52 Times in 48 Posts

    Default

    But N E H Virgin is listed as DOAS, the point being this normally means a death from natural causes, car accident etc. The men on the Warwick are noted as Killed/Missing on Active Service. Not withstanding an error, our experience over the last year or more would suggest anyone dying on that Warwick should be missing or killed on active service and not 'Died on Active Service - DOAS'

    There are no airmen listed as Wounded/Injured on Active Service in that Casualty list.

    The lack of or difficulty finding a registration for Eric Marks might be explained by his recovery from the sea.

    Anway I'm sure Ross and/or Errol have the answer.

    if you order the death cert for Virgin it will answer somethings.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    4,651
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 52 Times in 48 Posts

    Default

    The Glasgow Herald, Nov. 15 1945 carried a story on the crash. Basic details as above.

    States on crew man died 'who was severely injured, died yesterday forenoon'.

    also reports, 'Cruising round, the boats picked up two members of the crew. One of them, who was very badly burned, was taken to Burghead by the speed boat, while the other was taken on board the Larus, landed at Lossiemouth, and from there taken by RAF ambulance to Kinloss."

    it names the Larus cook, harry Farrar age 36 as the man lost over baord the day after the rescue.

    For info, I'll pop these details over to the original thread later perhaps.
    Dennis Burke
    - Dublin

    Foreign Aircrew and Aircraft Ireland 1939-1945
    www.ww2irishaviation.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,232
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Thanks Dennis, I get it now... he couldn't be KOAS in Scotland, if he was DOAS in Devon.
    David

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,021
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts

    Default

    [QUOTE=dennis_burke;45678]I think Errol was suggesting him being on that Warwick, he wasn't sure at the time.
    QUOTE]

    Dennis,

    Er, it was Cummings that was unsure, not me. He states that Virgin was 'believed to be' one of the Warwick's casualties.

    Errol

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •